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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Levi Pentaglot Senior Member United States Joined 5570 days ago 2268 posts - 3328 votes  Speaks: English*, French, Esperanto, German, Spanish Studies: Russian, Dutch, Portuguese, Mandarin, Japanese, Italian | Message 25 of 48 14 November 2009 at 5:17am | IP Logged | ||||||||
A couple notes on tones:
The character for six (六) is actually fourth tone: liù.
Though the first character in this phrase is the character for one (一), pronounced as first tone yī all by itself (such as when counting), this character changes to second tone yí before a fourth tone and it changes to fourth tone yì before any other tone. So 一样 is actually pronounced yíyàng (2nd tone-4th tone), even though the dictionary may say yīyàng. In case you are wondering, 样 (yàng) means way or manner, so 一样 (yíyàng) means "one way/manner", "like one", i.e. "the same". You also see this character in words like 这样 (zhèyàng) "this way/manner", "like this", and 那样 (nàyàng) "that way/manner", "like that". See what I mean about the building blocks? Edited by Levi on 14 November 2009 at 5:29am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| irrationale Tetraglot Senior Member China Joined 6053 days ago 669 posts - 1023 votes 2 sounds Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Tagalog Studies: Ancient Greek, Japanese | Message 26 of 48 14 November 2009 at 6:16am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Hey, great log!
I would highly recommend Pimsleur for your needs at this point. You'll learn some useful structures that you can plug in the words you want to use. Check the local library for copies. If you want to go into the intermediate level then it will be a different story. 加油！ 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| paisley Groupie United States Joined 5715 days ago 59 posts - 60 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Mandarin | Message 27 of 48 14 November 2009 at 8:17am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Ay yi yi. First i must learn all the products. When i learned a lot of Spanish it became overwhelming for me and now, and overall, just hasn't even worked out for this job, for example, i had a Spanish speaking woman today who asked me what our serums were for, she was talking and pointing to the 2 serums, and i could not describe them to her even though i have studied Spanish for quite some time. I couldn't even say the word serum! lol. But i can describe the 2 in chinese. if that makes sense. i can say "dry, oily, skin, little, mucho and put" en espanol. But ask me to say my grandmother is going to church tmrw, or has she, or would she like, or whether she should or should have, and no problem. Ugh. i have to learn my 100 words of products first, i have to be able to identify them to the clients. I know things here are different. many people are learning to speak with people, and in fact, can learn 25 words in a day, but i can only learn 3 a day, max and must know them in a second without having to think at all. i have to identify the products and their differences first. because tmrw someone is going to ask me how to cure their zits, and i won't know the what they're talking about to point to our clarifying lotion. lol. But my mother is a huge huge library fanatic, she's there 4 days a week, and i will see if she can do a locator and send for the pimsleur chinese for me. which means i should have it in a week or so. hopefully an hour or 2 will help me. but i don't have much more time than that. btwn term and weekly papers and the ridiculous things this job make me do, like blow drying my hair into pretty formations and wearing all the makeup a human could possibly put on their face, i don't really have much time for self study in the time i need to learn every product and their uses. You guys, they make me wear everything, right down to concealor and blush. it's awful. and they actually confront me if i'm not wearing blush or if they can't see it. "where's your blush" it's awful. But i digress. (oh, and for those who don't know, i used to work on the computer for this job in cosmetics, but they eliminated my position a bit over a month ago, so now i'm mostly a sales woman. Rules include "manicured nails in sheer colors" and "current fashionable makeup colors. *shakes head*. it's crazy. So it's not out of carelessness that i am not yet studying the language in full, it's because every day we have at least 1-3 clients that cannot speak English and are literally just saying words to us that no one here understands. like lip balm. but in chinese. so the faster i can learn 100 product words, the less likely they are to fire me because i don't look as street walker as they want me to. lol. *sigh* And this is what my life has come to. And thanks to this wonderful job market, my oppty to just leave isn't what it used to be. Although it is a bit of a blessing in a way, because no way otherwise would i have ever been pushed to learn chinese. But levi, i've read just a smidgen about tone changes, i am bugging out that it will come to that. sometimes i can say them, just because that's how they are taught to me, so i just regurgitate them. i never speak a word until someone tells me in chinese how to correctly say it. Will pimseleur have the rules on tone shifts without my having to go through all of the lessons? I literally have 10-20 mins a day to look at chinese. If i ever get a day off, i'll learn as many words as i can so that i can move on to grammar. Hopefully i can move on to grammar soon. Or maybe i'm just traumatized from pimsleur Spanish, where i am up to pimsleur III in espanol and still couldn't tell this woman today in Spanish what a serum was or what to do with it. i am so upset with my years of Spanish and not being able to speak it, that i am terrified that the same thing will happen to me in chinese and that then i will feel about chinese that i do about Spanish, which is right now, that i am a useless failure in it and that i will never be able to speak it. I always have thought that language must be impossible for me after my Spanish experience. i swear everytime i see this stupid rosetta stone Spanish box in my house i that i must be a moron. but again, i digress. my last language learning experience trying to do it all the correct way, was very discouraging, and i feel like if i follow the same thing in chinese, it will be another disappointing failing disaster. :(. So i'm trying to do almost the opposite of what i did before. a friend of mine on the job speaks more Spanish that i did after years of reading the proper texts, etc. I asked him how he did it, he said he took a seminar in conversational Spanish. after that, i regret that i didn't do that myself. Sorry for the rambling, but just wanted to let you guys know how my previous experience and current situation is shaping my learning. So don't be offended if i don't pick up on some detail that you give me, right away. I will revisit for sure the technical stuff you guys are sharing as soon as i learn more products, like body scrub and face scrub. oil absorbing tonic and matte finish. i can't believe the things i talk about on my job, day after day after day. Edited by paisley on 14 November 2009 at 9:07am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| paisley Groupie United States Joined 5715 days ago 59 posts - 60 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Mandarin | Message 28 of 48 14 November 2009 at 9:07am | IP Logged | ||||||||
yes, i definitely see what you mean about the building blocks. like jia4ge2 meaning price and jia4zhi2 meaning value (though i don't know what the syllables mean separately). i thought of you when i learned the word for value after knowing the word for price. it does make it much easier to remember things, so i look forward to learning more words like that and their hopefully helping me pick up the language. Damn, i meant liu4, i just type fast and missed it. Interesting about the yang. This language is wild. much more fun than romantic languages for sure. or maybe that's the trauma speaking. Edited by paisley on 14 November 2009 at 9:14am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| doviende Diglot Senior Member Canada languagefixatio Joined 5989 days ago 533 posts - 1245 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Spanish, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Hindi, Swedish, Portuguese | Message 29 of 48 14 November 2009 at 6:49pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Thanks for clarifying your study time and all that. I'm sure people here are just trying to make whatever suggestions they can that might fit with your goals, so it's helpful to know what your time commitment is too.
Don't worry about number of words per day, your progress is already fantastic. You clearly communicate way better than I would in your job situation, even though I can order food in a restaurant and do other situations. You seem to be doing very well at what you need. I think that's why you're getting so much attention here, because your progress is remarkable :) I think I would agree with the recommendation of Pimsleur as the next logical step IF you had enough time to do it. What you're doing now is great and obviously works well, but if you wanted to add something else then I think Pimsleur would be suitable. Also, that you can listen to each Pimsleur lesson as many times as you want. Nobody forces you to move to the next one right away. So maybe you could listen to half a lesson (15mins) and then a few days later listen to that same half a lesson again just to review it. This might only add 30 minutes of extra study time per week, but over time that could add up and be very helpful. Anyway, keep up the great work :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Levi Pentaglot Senior Member United States Joined 5570 days ago 2268 posts - 3328 votes Speaks: English*, French, Esperanto, German, Spanish Studies: Russian, Dutch, Portuguese, Mandarin, Japanese, Italian | Message 30 of 48 14 November 2009 at 7:11pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Using Pimsleur you should pick up on the tone changes just through absorption. There are really only two words whose tone changes: yī (one) and bù (not). Both words are pronounced with a fourth tone before a first, second or third tone, but with a second tone before a fourth tone. That might sound complicated, but they're such common words that they will be drilled into your head very early on, and quickly the patterns will just start to "sound right" to you. Edited by Levi on 14 November 2009 at 7:13pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| paisley Groupie United States Joined 5715 days ago 59 posts - 60 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Mandarin | Message 31 of 48 15 November 2009 at 12:39am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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You guys are great, thank you so much. :). Man, the people on this forum are very nice! that is a breath of fresh air. :).And i really appreciate your guys (all) support, so thank so much.
Dioviende, That is a very good idea about listening to pimsluer many times without needed to move on. i used to move on quickly in espanol because i knew so much it was frustrating to stay on one chapter more than once or twice before moving on, but that won't be the case in Chinese at all. And if i studied the same thing many times, it would be completely under my belt. That would be good. and non-intimidating. Levi, phew! two words. I like that sound of that. :D. Fab. I was *just* thinking about pimsleur before i checked this site. I was thinking i probably should wait on it, and i knew it was because i was still scared due to my Spanish experience, but that makes sense about the absorption. I think there is also something about "shifting tones", like when there are rising/falling tones right next to each other. or something. But i think i probably can get to that later, the Yi and Bu seems doable. And so true about the "sounding right". that is how i think it best to learn this language. making it more intuitive, and less of whatever i did before. lol. Sorry if i acted defensive and crazy, i'm just scared. : ). Thanks all. Edited by paisley on 15 November 2009 at 12:45am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| doviende Diglot Senior Member Canada languagefixatio Joined 5989 days ago 533 posts - 1245 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Spanish, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Hindi, Swedish, Portuguese | Message 32 of 48 15 November 2009 at 12:56am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Ya, there is another tone-change thing, but it's just when you have two 3rd-tones in a row. In that case, the first one changes to second tone. classic example: hen3 hao3 (很好 - "very good") actually sounds like hen2 hao3 when spoken. The crazy change thing for yi1 and bu4 are super-special cases just for those two words, but this other rule is for any consecutive 3rd-tone syllables. But like Levi says, once you hear it a bunch, it'll just be "the way you do it", and you won't have to think about it.
1 person has voted this message useful |
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