|
 |
TAC 2010: Sharp Knives | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Sprachjunge Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 7169 days ago 368 posts - 548 votes  Speaks: English*, GermanC2 Studies: Spanish, Russian | Message 113 of 146 21 February 2010 at 2:48pm | IP Logged | |||||
|
20.02.10 was a Spanish day. (I did not work today, so no Russian. :( )
Spanish: -audio: reviewed “En la biblioteca” and “Encuentro en la calle” from Audiria, #22 and 169 German: -audio clip/article: “Der Humor der Deutschen“ SIL 18.6 End of the Week Reflections: German: I am actually quite satisfied with my progress so far. I'm studying it, so I'm always reading literature in it, whether I want to or not. I do, although I would be lying if I didn't confess that I wish we were reading more contemporary work. All right, I'm going to stop this train of thought with a whistle because I have quite a few bones to pick with my German department. But in terms of the language, it is becoming progressively easier to not only "be," but---dare I say it?--prefer to "be" in German. I don't have as much German music that I like as I would wish, but c'est la vie. On the other hand, there are plenty of German movies at the library, there are always podcasts, and Stromberg is free online. I enjoy the slow slog of learning how to write properly in a formal/academic register in German--it's just staggering how many collocations and turns of phrase must be mastered before one can be even negligibly original. My profuse compliments to all non-native speakers of English who post here with lucidity and eloquence. Spanish: It's only been 2 months, but I actually feel like I'm making progress, believe it or not. I realized the other day that my program is a cobbled-together version of Assimil using audio clips from Audiria.com (which I wholeheartedly recommend). I have been working through their "daily scenes" section. One huge advantage of Audiria is that their clips are some of the most authentic listening material I've heard: the speakers slur and add in filler words that aren't marked in the transcript; sometimes speech is fast, sometimes slow; and they include quite a bit of vocabulary pertaining to a given topic in a manner that is pleasingly unobtrusive. Some of our dorm staff are Hispanic. I am friends with a few, and I was astounded the other day to realize that I was understanding them a heck of a lot better than I did last year. Splog's almost famous "conversational fillers" were finally at my lips without hesitation, such that it was much easier to sustain a conversation, although my friends did most of the talking. So, I think I will continue with this method for a while. Russian: Russian is still my Sorgenkind, my problem child. It's not that I don't know how to go about learning it. In fact, it's precisely because I know (now, after two languages) what I should be doing that it frustrates me. Care to hear a bit from my "ars linguistica?" There was a post recently averring that "intensity is key." This is thoroughly true. With a new language, you need to be listening to 9-10 hours of the language every day, working intensively out of a textbook or two, and preferably supplementing this with assistance from native speakers, because it is at the beginning when you will have the most questions that really should be cleared up so as to avoid fossilized mistakes. Otherwise, you learn, but the pace is not effective at all because you never build up momentum, so you spend just as much time reviewing as you do learning new material. This is where I currently am with Russian. Also, ideally, I would only be learning one completely new language at a time. To say that I am "maintaining" German or Spanish would be unfair to myself: No, I'm still learning them actively. So, it is the same mental effort spread over three languages instead of one. I know all of this. But the truth is, I cannot make Russian a priority in my life right now. Or rather, I consciously choose not to, because it would not be the best use of my time. (To be brutally honest, even Spanish is a luxury. But I refuse to give it up.) So now I ponder: Is it better to cut my losses now and save Russian for when I can devote the proper time for it? (Because I will learn Russian one day, no worries.) Or should I be content with a scaled-back effort, knowing that, due to the inefficacy of the process, I will have comparatively little to show for it at the end of the year? Edited by Sprachjunge on 21 February 2010 at 2:57pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| josht Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6450 days ago 635 posts - 857 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: French, Spanish, Russian, Dutch | Message 114 of 146 21 February 2010 at 4:08pm | IP Logged | |||||
That tends to be my perennial question: should I drop this language until later, or is it okay to learn it in a very low-gear mode? I knowingly spread myself somewhat thin with my target languages, simply because I find them all of interest, and am in no great rush to master any of them. They're hobbies, not job assignments. Really, I suppose the key is this: are you okay with what you're doing? I sometimes fall into the trap of feeling like I'm accountable to other people for my learning strategies, as if the Language Learning Police are going to arrive at my door any day, stating that I have violated some law by not spending enough time on language X. Such thinking is silly, obviously. As long as your expectations are in line with your level of activity - you're not going to become fluent in Russian throwing in a few minutes here and there throughout the week - you should be fine. It's when your expectations and your level of activity aren't lined up that you're going to become frustrated. If you're happy with what you're doing, by all means, continue to do so; Russian certainly doesn't care whether you learn it quickly or excrutiatingly slowly. If you're not happy with what you're doing, change your expectations or change what you're doing. Sorry if all of that sounds very common sense-ish; it is, really, but it personally took me quite some time to come to grips with it. You're not wronging the universe by just dabbling in a foreign language. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Faraday Senior Member United States Joined 6122 days ago 129 posts - 256 votes Speaks: German* | Message 115 of 146 21 February 2010 at 5:27pm | IP Logged | |||||
|
Language perfectionism is counterproductive in my experience. The little that you do in
Russian now will be enormously helpful when you return to it later full force. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| joanthemaid Triglot Senior Member France Joined 5474 days ago 483 posts - 559 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Russian, German | Message 116 of 146 21 February 2010 at 9:40pm | IP Logged | |||||
|
9 or 10 hours a day? That's impossible for anyone who has a life, so I'd say you really should feel bad. Personally before I started the TAC I'd spend maybe 3 or 5 hours a week on Russian, and I did learn the basics (OK, very basic, but I was still very happy about it). I didn't have any language learning experience before now, really, as I learned English at school mostly and passively, but the way I see it when you're learning a completely new language (for me, Russian), it's nice because however little time you spend on it, it still feels like you're learning a lot, you know so little to start with! So unlike you I think that when you're beginning you can afford to learn very slowly and in fact you don't have that much to review, most of it is so common you just use it all the time. All that to say that I agree with Josht and Faraday. Have fun with it, don't worry and you'll find that you're actually learning something.
And don't worry (too much) about learning some things wrong, after all I learned English at school and I ended up speaking it well ( when you learn at school it's very rare for your teacher to be a native near-native speaker, so you're bound to learn some things wrong). By the way, I'm not claiming that the way I speak it now is perfect, it's been much better and speaking of maintaining languages I'm definitely not doing that right now. Oh well... I don't feel too bad about because I know I just need to spend a week in an English-speaking country to get it back to a decent level, and really I'm still better at it than most of my colleagues. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Quabazaa Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 5613 days ago 414 posts - 543 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, German, French Studies: Japanese, Korean, Maori, Scottish Gaelic, Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Written) | Message 117 of 146 22 February 2010 at 12:25am | IP Logged | |||||
|
Dear Sprachjunge, sounds like your German is going awesomely! :) I only just found the online Stromberg episodes a few days ago (searching sadly for something to replace Türkisch für Anfänger hehe) so I really look forward to going through them :) Also surely you can read some contemporary things on your own time? Or perhaps get an audiobook to listen to when you're not doing Russian at your job?
Man do I hear you on the collocations and turns of phrases. I was writing in German to my friend this weekend, and despite understanding and enjoying her way of writing, when I tried to reply everything just sounded so stilted, unnatural and basic! :/ But it just comes with time I guess! Btw did you intentionally study conversational fillers or just pick them up on the way? I'm sure working on them would help me, though I'm not sure which ones I'm missing in each language right now, hehe XD Aaand this is coming from an eternal dabbler, so take it with a grain of salt, but I honestly think you shouldn't give up any of your languages. Maybe Russian won't progress as fast as you'd like, but I really think that even any tiny bit is better than none at all. The languages I don't even touch on a monthly basis definitely experience an attrition, so if I really had a goal of being C2 in any of them, I think I would use them more often. Basically, I think you should keep giving Russian as much time as you can afford! :) Better to keep progressing slowly than not at all, isn't it...?? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| JoshN Newbie United States Joined 5414 days ago 8 posts - 9 votes Speaks: English* | Message 118 of 146 22 February 2010 at 5:44am | IP Logged | |||||
|
Sprachjunge: I suppose the two sides of the argument are enjoyment versus opportunity cost.
If you enjoy the experience of learning Russian, even knowing that your progress will be slow, and that you're taking away time that could be used to more quickly master Spanish and German (or even non-language disciplines), then why not keep at it? But if your goal is to master languages in the "cleanest" was possible, and you are OK with limiting your natural desire to experiment, then concentrating on your two primary languages seems to make sense. I don't know if there's really a wrong choice. :-) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Sprachjunge Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 7169 days ago 368 posts - 548 votes Speaks: English*, GermanC2 Studies: Spanish, Russian | Message 119 of 146 22 February 2010 at 2:20pm | IP Logged | |||||
This made me laugh, because in fact, my fears are at least partially grounded in reality: the whole point of the TAC is that we have our own "Language Learning Police" force to keep us accountable! Take a look at Joanthemaid's previous post checking up on my Russian progress (thank you for that, by the way, Joanthemaid! That's why we're doing the TAC.).
But thank you for this. I sometimes lose perspective and then devolve into creating problems where none exist. Thank you for bringing me back to reality! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Sprachjunge Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 7169 days ago 368 posts - 548 votes Speaks: English*, GermanC2 Studies: Spanish, Russian | Message 120 of 146 22 February 2010 at 2:28pm | IP Logged | |||||
I agree with the sentiments that I assume inspired you to write this--thanks for the encouragement! However, it's funny, because I actually think that a healthy dose of language perfectionism is good for most people. For instance, I find that even when I exert myself to the fullest to write in perfect German, I still make plenty of mistakes. However, there are far fewer than if I had avoided trying my very hardest in the first place. I shudder to think of where I would be if I hadn't attempted perfection (or close to it). Some people say: It's better to lower your expectations to achieve contentment. I (honestly--not flippantly) see where they're coming from, but for me, my truth is: It is better to have high expectations--and meet them more often than not. 1 person has voted this message useful |
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
