Italian dialects VERY similar to Spanish (Specific Languages) Language Learning Forum

Italian dialects VERY similar to Spanish
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Nature
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Message 1 of 11

08 December 2010 at 6:27am | IP Logged

My grandparents all come from Italy My paternal grandparents are from Abruzzo but speak more or less standard Italian. My maternal grandmother is Italian but born in Canada and my maternal grandfather is from the province of Molise. Both Abruzzo and Molise are in Southern Italy. I don't speak the dialects but I understand them.

Standard Italian is indeed very similar to Spanish but the dialect my grandfather from Molise speaks is strikingly closer!

As an example in the molise dialect, the verb to have (in standard Italian avere) would be teng so for example you'd say "i teng" which would mean I have. That is essentially yo tengo sans the o. That must be related to Spanish.

-Another example I can think of is my grandfather will always "alla!" but not in the sense of "alla destra." but in the Spanish sense of "alla" meaning way over there!

I can't think of anymore because I don't really speak the dialect but is there a reason why these dialects are much more related to Spanish? I've always asked myself this question and I finally wanted an answer so I came to the one place I felt could answer this :P
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Merv
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Message 2 of 11

08 December 2010 at 7:30am | IP Logged

Nature wrote:

My grandparents all come from Italy My paternal grandparents are from Abruzzo but speak
more or less standard Italian. My maternal grandmother is Italian but born in Canada and my maternal
grandfather is from the province of Molise. Both Abruzzo and Molise are in Southern Italy. I don't speak the
dialects but I understand them.

Standard Italian is indeed very similar to Spanish but the dialect my grandfather from Molise speaks is strikingly
closer!

As an example in the molise dialect, the verb to have (in standard Italian avere) would be teng so for
example you'd say "i teng" which would mean I have. That is essentially yo tengo sans the o. That must be
related to Spanish.

-Another example I can think of is my grandfather will always "alla!" but not in the sense of "alla destra." but in
the Spanish sense of "alla" meaning way over there!

I can't think of anymore because I don't really speak the dialect but is there a reason why these dialects are much
more related to Spanish? I've always asked myself this question and I finally wanted an answer so I came to the
one place I felt could answer this :P

I don't know for sure, but my guess is (other than coincidence): parts of southern Italy were ruled by Spaniards.
Also, southern Italy has Arab influence, as does the Iberian peninsula.

From wikipedia, on Mezzogiorno:

Quote:

From then to the Norman conquest of the 11th century, the south of the peninsula was constantly
plunged into wars between Greece, Lombardy, and the Islamic Caliphate. The latter established several Islamic
states in southern Italy, such as the Emirate of Sicily and Emirate of Bari. The Norman conquest of southern Italy
completely subjugated the Lombard principalities, and overwhelmed the Byzantines from all but Naples, which
ultimately gave in to Roger II in 1127. He raised the south to kingdom status in 1130, calling it the Kingdom of
Sicily. The Normans retained harmonious control of their territory, and ran the kingdom of Sicily efficiently. The
Norman Kingdom of Sicily under Roger II was characterised by its multi-ethnic nature and religious tolerance.[9]
Normans, Jews, Muslim Arabs, Byzantine Greeks, Longobards and "native" Sicilians lived in harmony. However, it
lasted only 64 years before the Holy Roman Emperors long-held designs on the region came to fruition. The
Hohenstaufen rule ended in defeat, but the conquering French of Charles of Anjou were themselves forcibly
pushed out in the event immortalized as the Sicilian Vespers. Hereafter, until the union in Spain, the kingdom
was split between the principalities of Naples on the mainland and of Sicily over the island. The Aragonese rule
left its impression on Italy and the Renaissance through such figures as Alfonso the Magnanimous. With the
unification of the crowns of Castile and Aragon in the late 15th century, southern Italy and Sicily ceased to have a
local monarch and were ruled by viceroys appointed by the Spanish crown.

Until the Norman conquests of the 11th and 12th centuries much of the South followed Eastern rite (Greek)
Christianity. The Normans who settled in Sicily and Southern Italy in the Middle Ages significantly impacted the
architecture, religion and high culture of the region. Later, Southern Italy was subjected to rule by the new
European nation states, first Aragon, then Spain and Austria. The Spanish had a major impact on the culture of
the South, having ruled it for over three centuries.

Edited by Merv on 08 December 2010 at 7:32am
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Andy E
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Message 3 of 11

08 December 2010 at 9:20am | IP Logged

Very interesting.

I also looked up regional variations in Using Italian: A Guide to Contemporary Usage and they note the following usage in southern dialects:

a used with human direct object: ho visto a Giuseppe instead of ho visto Giuseppe

tenere: tengo fame instead of ho fame

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Gusutafu
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Message 4 of 11

08 December 2010 at 9:26am | IP Logged

Well, the thing that needs explanation is rather the opposite, that some descendants of Latin are so different from each other...
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Fabrizio
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Message 5 of 11

09 December 2010 at 9:21am | IP Logged

As a native speaker of both Italian and - my parents would almost certainly disagree on
this point - Sardinian, I'd like to add my humble opinion on this very interesting
thread :)
Please have a look of the following examples (you can read the same sentences
respectively in English, Italian, Spanish and, last but not least, Sardinian.)

1.
- "Close the window!"
- "Chiudi la finestra!"
- "Cierra la ventana!"
- "Serra sa ventana!"

2.
- "How to iron a shirt."
- "Come stirare una camicia."
- "Cómo planchar una camisa."
- "Cummenti pranchai una cammisa."

3.
- "Bye-bye!"
- "Ciao!/etc."
- "¡Adiós!"
- "Adiosu!"

I might add some more examples, but I think these few ones are already quite self-
explanatory :)
My knowledge of the Spanish language is pretty poor at the moment (by the way, I'll be
soon starting with a Spanish & Japanese log), but I'm serious when I say that I could
understand more then the general meaning of everyday conversations even without having
any previous knowledge of the language. I guess this is pretty indicative of how close
Sardinia and Spain are related in terms of language.

Edited by Fabrizio on 10 December 2010 at 12:17pm
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Random review
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Message 6 of 11

10 December 2010 at 9:31pm | IP Logged

I read that the "personal a" that you guys discussed above

Andy E wrote:

a used with human direct object: ho visto a Giuseppe instead of ho visto Giuseppe

is also used in some Southern Italian dialects, but the rest of this fascinating thread is all new to me.

Edited by Random review on 10 December 2010 at 9:32pm
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Nature
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Message 7 of 11

18 December 2010 at 10:48am | IP Logged

Hm I've got another example for you all, this time from my dad's side!

In standard Italian, a pencil is "una matita" and in the Abruzzese dialect, it's pronounced, "un lapz" which is very similar to the Spanish word for pencil, "un lápiz"
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Fabrizio
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Message 8 of 11

18 December 2010 at 11:00am | IP Logged

Nature wrote:

Hm I've got another example for you all, this time from my dad's side!

In standard Italian, a pencil is "una matita" and in the Abruzzese dialect, it's
pronounced, "un lapz" which is very similar to the Spanish word for pencil, "un lápiz"

"Lapis" is a currently used word for "matita" in standard Italian too ;)

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