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Spanish in the United States | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| hrhenry Octoglot Senior Member United States languagehopper.blogs Joined 5135 days ago 1871 posts - 3642 votes  Speaks: English*, SpanishC2, ItalianC2, Norwegian, Catalan, Galician, Turkish, Portuguese Studies: Polish, Indonesian, Ojibwe | Message 17 of 27 11 December 2010 at 8:34pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I'm playing Devil's Advocate here, but might you not also consider "obnoxiously passive-aggressive" and "hostile" to be incendiary too? If anything gets my goat, it's using overly dramatic language when none is needed. R. == 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| MixedUpCody Senior Member United States Joined 5261 days ago 144 posts - 280 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Mandarin | Message 18 of 27 11 December 2010 at 8:38pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Haha. Yea, I didn't think about it but I suppose it is. I'm not sure what a less hostile synonym would have been though. Should we go with "Gets my goat?"
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| ruskivyetr Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5486 days ago 769 posts - 962 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Spanish, Russian, Polish, Modern Hebrew | Message 19 of 27 11 December 2010 at 10:35pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Quite frankly I do. In my opinion, fluency is the ability to express yourself in a conversation (the difficulty of which can vary with the level of fluency). There is no "set level" for fluency, unfortunately, and my interpretation of the skill level of most of the people I have observed in my school system is that of basic fluency. I never said anyone was of advanced/native fluency. I said BASIC fluency. As in they could express themselves to a LIMITED level. The fact that you could not grasp that is unfortunate...
I do appreciate your doubtfulness, and I must admit I was vague as to the level of fluency and as to the amount of people who could speak to that level. To clarify: MOST as in: a. those who take Spanish b. those in the high school system c. those who obtain fairly good marks (most teachers ensure that in order to get a good grade you must have some command of the language) d. those who even care To clarify the level of fluency: Basic to the point where one could converse about everyday topics concerning the life of an average person. I did NOT mean having the ability to discuss more advanced things that would require a formal education in the target language. And yes, thinking back, I did exaggerate as to the amount of people regarding the "it's almost as if everybody..." comment. However, education and good marks are taken VERY SERIOUSLY where I live, and getting a good grade in Spanish is just as important as getting a good grade in other subjects. And, as I said, the Spanish teachers here make sure that your grade is based SOMEWHAT off of your command of the language. I apologize if I was a bit vague, but to my defense, have you observed the everyday high school situation of my school? If you're not in high school, what gives you the right to state the Spanish speaking ability of high schoolers? If you are not, in fact, currently in school, I would suggest you not make claims about the modern day schooling of American high schoolers, especially that of a district with which you are not even familiar. And yes, regarding what Ellasevia had said, there ARE school systems whose world language departments are HORRIBLE. However, I am stating a fact that the method of teaching Spanish in MY school works quite well. Unfortunately, this is not true throughout all of America, as I had said before. Edited by ruskivyetr on 11 December 2010 at 10:41pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| hrhenry Octoglot Senior Member United States languagehopper.blogs Joined 5135 days ago 1871 posts - 3642 votes Speaks: English*, SpanishC2, ItalianC2, Norwegian, Catalan, Galician, Turkish, Portuguese Studies: Polish, Indonesian, Ojibwe | Message 20 of 27 11 December 2010 at 11:20pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I don't think anyone is trying to disparage your high school. The objection I think is the subject title - Spanish in the United States (thereby lumping the entire country into the generalization being made). I don't remember if anyone asked: Where is it located? Even if some of us are not in high school, I'm quite sure that there are those among us that have taught in the school system. Anyway... again, nobody's trying to put down your high school language program. and it's nice to see you're proud of your school. just realize that it's not the same everywhere. R. == 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| skchi Groupie United States Joined 5750 days ago 57 posts - 86 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 21 of 27 11 December 2010 at 11:47pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
A few of the elementary and middle schools in my area teach Spanish, but most of the students in my area don't take Spanish until high school. I think that the vast majority of the US is still monolingual. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| ruskivyetr Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5486 days ago 769 posts - 962 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Spanish, Russian, Polish, Modern Hebrew | Message 22 of 27 12 December 2010 at 2:18am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Oh I realize it's not the same everywhere. I was just trying to get some input from other people, to see what the situation is like in other parts of the country. It was more of getting observations from different people to see if there is hope for putting the "monolingual American" stereotype to rest with the up and coming generations. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Raye Diglot Newbie United States Joined 5159 days ago 37 posts - 51 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: DutchB1 | Message 23 of 27 12 December 2010 at 10:36pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I think the Southwest is probably a special case, and maybe New York City, Miami and a few other spots. Kids in these areas are probably likelier to be offered Spanish, and are more likely to choose it. Some percentage of them will be motivated and have opportunities to reach more advanced levels, however defined (ability to chat with native Spanish speaking friends, ability to hold jobs where Spanish is required, ability to pass certification exams in Spanish, ability to understand futbol broadcasts, whatever).
This can’t compare with the way people in the rest of the world choke down massive amounts of English or French until they become second nature. But it’s kind of an interesting phenomenon, especially when you think about the way Spanish has become a global language. It’s significant that it’s the only language that many -- most? -- Americans bother to try to learn. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| hrhenry Octoglot Senior Member United States languagehopper.blogs Joined 5135 days ago 1871 posts - 3642 votes Speaks: English*, SpanishC2, ItalianC2, Norwegian, Catalan, Galician, Turkish, Portuguese Studies: Polish, Indonesian, Ojibwe | Message 24 of 27 12 December 2010 at 11:47pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I wouldn't say that most or even many Americans try to learn Spanish outside of high school, and if they study it in any depth in college it's because it's a requirement. I spent a good deal of my adult life in California before moving back to the midwest and the majority of the adults I worked with did not speak Spanish beyond the few widely known words that have crept into daily American English use. That said, if anyone really did want to learn Spanish, at least Latin American Spanish, they have ample opportunity in the US. With just basic cable, you have access to a great variety of programming in Spanish, on the order of 20-some channels. Premium access will bump that number up to 40 or so. If you live in a largish city, chances are you have at least a couple of digital over-the-air Spanish channels available. But honestly, you won't find many non-Hispanics watching those channels. R. == 1 person has voted this message useful |
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