|
 |
TAC 2010 - Splog goes for Esperanto | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| doviende Diglot Senior Member Canada languagefixatio Joined 5990 days ago 533 posts - 1245 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Spanish, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Hindi, Swedish, Portuguese | Message 9 of 27 06 December 2009 at 9:09pm | IP Logged |
|
Since you're an experienced language learner already, I'm going to put in a second recommendation for the German KEK course that Sprachprofi recommended. I found most of the other "beginner" Esperanto lessons to be quite dull and almost insulting in their ease, whereas the KEK course pushes you along at quite a good pace. I also enjoyed working my way through this short parallel (en / eo) text: http://donh.best.vwh.net/Esperanto/brozovsky.html. There's also http://libraro.co.cc/ which has plenty of translated and original esperanto works, with a click-to-translate thing that will show a translation of any word at the bottom of the page.
1 person has voted this message useful | |
| LuxEtVeritas Diglot Groupie United States Joined 5709 days ago 50 posts - 65 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, German, Italian | Message 10 of 27 06 December 2009 at 9:18pm | IP Logged |
|
Good luck, Splog, Esperanto should be easy for you (based on the langues you already
know)! I'm excited to see your logs in Esperanto :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Splog Diglot Senior Member Czech Republic anthonylauder.c Joined 5673 days ago 1062 posts - 3263 votes Speaks: English*, Czech Studies: Mandarin | Message 11 of 27 01 January 2010 at 1:16pm | IP Logged |
|
Today was the first day of my Esperanto adventure.
I started today with Teach Yourself Esperanto - going through both the Introduction (including learning pronunciation) and Chapter 1 (Family Matters). The book itself seems to be very well written - so I am sure this will be a pleasure to work with. One very nice point is the recommendation in the book for how to study: 1 hour per day split into 4 x 15 minute sessions. This was exactly my plan, so that is encouraging. The author does, however, claim that it is a mistake to take off any days which is troubling since I do not study at all on Sundays. On to the language itself: I can already tell that it is remarkable easy to learn. In the book it claims that a competent linguist can gain proficiency in a dozen hours! That sounds optimistic to me, plus I am not a professional linguist. Still, the grammar is extremely simple as far as I can tell, and then it must just be a question of vocabulary. Apparently, the dictionary for Esperanto is approximately one tenth the size of that for most languages - due to the way new words are created dynamically. One thing has shocked me: after just one hour of study, I found myself thinking in Esperanto. Not so much in the words, but in visual images that sprung to mind, and from those my brain constructed words that I am sure would be understood by Esperanto speakers even if they are not words in the dictionary. That is, I am already getting to grips with the idea that Esperanto is more like a construction kit that you can play with. A good example is that I sometimes attend a "gentlemen's club" (where men sit around in comfy chairs and talk about politics while getting a bit tipsy). As soon as the image of the club popped into my mind so did the word "virejo" - meaning a place used by a man. Actually, there are no examples in chapter 1 of using "-ej-" inserted into plural nouns, so my brain was unsure how to say "a place used by men". I assume that "virejoj" would be places used by a man, which has the plurality in the wrong place. But, for now - after just one hour of exposure to Esperanto I am not going to worry about such it, and I am astounded my brain is already starting to dwell on these issues. Edited by Splog on 01 January 2010 at 2:33pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Sprachprofi Nonaglot Senior Member Germany learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6474 days ago 2608 posts - 4866 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese | Message 12 of 27 01 January 2010 at 5:32pm | IP Logged |
|
Way to go! "Virejo" is perfect for this. Don't worry about plural within compounds - Mandarin doesn't ;-) For example, "porkejo" is not just a place for one pig. If it's absolutely necessary to emphasize the plural, you can use plur- (multiple).
For me, learning the Esperanto affix system was very rewarding, and I believe it may be similar for you. I put up a set of exercises for them at http://www.learnlangs.com/blog/2009/12/30/practise-esperanto -affixes/ . I like that you're already thinking up new words in Esperanto; unlike in other languages, you're supposed to make the language your own that way. Another example: a virtual classroom student of mine had problems with his microphone distorting the voice. He was missing the word "ripari" (to repair, fix) and so he said "Mi provos malstrangigi ĝin" (I'll try to un-strange-ify it). Awesome! 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Splog Diglot Senior Member Czech Republic anthonylauder.c Joined 5673 days ago 1062 posts - 3263 votes Speaks: English*, Czech Studies: Mandarin | Message 13 of 27 04 January 2010 at 12:17pm | IP Logged |
|
Thanks Sprachprofi ... I will certainly look at those exercises, however I am being careful to restrict myself to a few resources at a time - so I don't end up leaping from one to another and never make progress.
So far, I am three hours into Esperanto. I am now on chapter 4. Each chapter (plus the intro and pronunciation sections) in Teach Yourself Esperanto has so far taken about half an hour. One chapter a day seems enough, so I have supplemented the TYS book with an audio course I found on Lernu call Mek Lecionoj. It is good to have some audio! In fact, inspired by this I must confess I was compelled to do some internet piracy, and have found and downloaded the audio for the TYS book. Since the book and audio are out of print I don't feel too guilty about this (particularly since the book cost my dear mother 20 pounds for a used copy!). Again, I am astonished with the speed at which I am picking up Esperanto. This, I hasten to add, is not due to any great capabilities on my part. Rather, the regular grammar makes the rules a breeze, and the vocab borrows heavily from other languages with which I have at least some familiarity. One thing is starting to puzzle me though. I do understand that "granda viro" means "big man", whereas "virego" means giant (the TYS book cautions not to confuse the two). However, I can only see this distinction in specific cases. I am unsure of the difference between "granda cxambro" and "cxambrego" for example. Hopefully this will become clear in time, but so far it is the only point where I have found myself puzzled. Edited by Splog on 04 January 2010 at 12:22pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Splog Diglot Senior Member Czech Republic anthonylauder.c Joined 5673 days ago 1062 posts - 3263 votes Speaks: English*, Czech Studies: Mandarin | Message 14 of 27 08 January 2010 at 4:33pm | IP Logged |
|
I am now just over a week into my Esperanto pursuits. Which means 7x4x15minute sessions. That is, 7 hours total.
So far, I: - Worked through the first five chapters of the TYS book quickly (without audio) - Then revisited each of those chapters intensively - pondering ever little detail and trying to think of alternative ways of phrasing things - and this time also had supporting audio - Listened twice to each of the first three lessons in Mek Lecionoj, which I found OK, but a little too much "listen and repeat" for my liking. I would prefer a more "Michel Thomas" type course, which teaches the grammar through fragments of language which can then be combined My initial excitement with Esperanto has given way to a weird feeling of trepidation. This is most likely because in studying a new language it is around this time I start to hit exceptions to the regular grammar, and my heart starts to sink at the whole slog ahead. It is as though my nervous system has got into the habit of things getting tough - yet I know logically that (fingers crossed) this should not be the case with Esperanto. Having said that, there have been a few times where I have already raised an eyebrow at the grammar. For example, noun cases have started to be introduced (suffixing with "-n") and I wonder whether this is even necessary and how complex the case system is going to get. I have started making one of my 15 minute sessions each day "output only" - where I try to describe the things around me, or think of events from the day. Naturally, it is fairly rudimentary given my limited vocabulary - but I do find myself playing with interesting concepts from the grammar and creating new words therefrom. My overall feeling is that it is quite a playful language, which I hadn't anticipated. From this point on, each chapter in the TYS book is more like a news story than a lesson, so it is a gentle introduction to (pseudo) authentic material, which I am pleased with. My plan for the next week, then, is to get through 6 more chapters in the TYS book, and to finish Mek Lecionoj. And, of course, to keep spending 15 minutes a day on output. By the end of next week, I will have completed 12 hours on Esperanto which the author of the TYS book claims is enough exposure for a trained linguist to be very comfortable in the language. I can already tell I will not be at that stage at all - mainly due to lack of vocabulary - however, it is clear that my level of comfort is increasing much faster than it did with any other language. Edited by Splog on 08 January 2010 at 5:37pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Sprachprofi Nonaglot Senior Member Germany learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6474 days ago 2608 posts - 4866 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese | Message 15 of 27 08 January 2010 at 4:59pm | IP Logged |
|
I can calm your fears about the case system: the -n is all there is. And the -n is applied throughout: for nouns, adjectives, even personal pronouns (min = me; lin = him), singular and plural.
What makes it easy is that you don't have to distinguish Accusative and Dative. "min" and "al mi" etc. are interchangeable, just make sure you don't have two objects ending in -n, e. g. when saying "Mi donas la libron al li" (I give the book to him) you can't make that "lin" instead. This Accusative is a point of criticism of course, but I find that the benefits by far outweigh the cost. It enables poets to use free word order, which is essential for example for this poem below: Ĉe fenestro de vagonaro - Julio Baghy Vilaĝeto ĉe rivero, verda monto, flora bord', sonorilson' de l' vespero, benko ĉe la domopord', ligas min al vi memoro: gaja ludo de infan', la sekret' de juna koro, kiso de l' unua am'... Vilaĝeto ĉe rivero, vin viziti vanas rev'; tenas min en mallibero, urba vivo, zorgoj, dev'. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Splog Diglot Senior Member Czech Republic anthonylauder.c Joined 5673 days ago 1062 posts - 3263 votes Speaks: English*, Czech Studies: Mandarin | Message 16 of 27 08 January 2010 at 5:41pm | IP Logged |
|
Thank you for your prompt reassurances. I do understand that flexible word order is useful. The poetic-use isn't so interesting to me ;-)I see its main benefit in other languages being for emphasis (in contrast to using intonation: I didn't give it to her, I gave it to HIM!"). Still, this complicates the grammar that I think that could put off people who are new to the concept. Glad to hear it is the only case though! Edited by Splog on 08 January 2010 at 5:41pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
