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ELP is offensive to English people | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| Gusutafu Senior Member Sweden Joined 5522 days ago 655 posts - 1039 votes  Speaks: Swedish* | Message 9 of 46 30 November 2010 at 2:38pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Because there is no such thing as lower class or backward? Or because we should pretend that there isn't, to ensure maximum political correctness? 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| jazzboy.bebop Senior Member Norway norwegianthroughnove Joined 5419 days ago 439 posts - 800 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Norwegian | Message 10 of 46 30 November 2010 at 4:12pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I am not sure you fully understand the connotations that the phrase "lower class" holds these days. Using it automatically paints you as someone who has disdain for working class people and that you see yourself as being very high class. It is the kind of thing you might expect of a pompous, very right wing upper class person, who believes that the worth of a person should be based on their material worth rather than character. Some people may make remarks of people being lower class in private, but they are usually not stupid enough to say it in public as it makes them look extremely arrogant. As for backwards, on what basis is a place necessarily backward? You get people with what might be considered backward outlooks everywhere and they can be found anywhere on the social spectrum. It just isn't a good thing for a site, for its seemingly official position, to single out a certain area, call it backward and say that it lags culturally especially when the public consciousness in Britain does not think of the North of England in such a way. There are other areas in the public consciousness that are thought of as being far more backward and are joked about by comedians, but we all know it is based on stereotypes and that it is just for fun. This site seems to have a certain air of authority and certainly of collaboration, but to have those kinds of remarks on the main profile of a language is unnecessary and divisive and could come across as being the opinion of the makers and administrators of the website and those who use it. I wouldn't think it too much of a problem if say it were a profile on a standalone-blog by someone offering language learning advice. You know who made the remarks and you can write it off as being personal opinion, but on a site such as this it could really paint the site in a negative light to some and anger others, such as this thread-starter. Is it not the purpose of the site to instruct and bring people together? Can that really be achieved when it singles out and ridicules areas of the population in certain countries? Edited by jazzboy.bebop on 30 November 2010 at 4:14pm 9 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Gusutafu Senior Member Sweden Joined 5522 days ago 655 posts - 1039 votes Speaks: Swedish* | Message 11 of 46 30 November 2010 at 4:32pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
OK, but what is the PC equivalent then? "Less fortunate"? "Economically challenged"? What about "working class", is that still allowed then?
I don't understand the role of the adverb here, but I suppose he means culturally and linguistically backward, which in that case would refer to a place where literacy rates, university attendance, book reading and theatre going are lower. But I didn't write it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| JimC Senior Member United Kingdom tinyurl.com/aberdeen Joined 5548 days ago 199 posts - 317 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 12 of 46 30 November 2010 at 4:51pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Perhaps it's just me then, but I would never describe anyone as lower class or backwards. It's the way I was brought up. My parents always encourgaed good manners. If other people feel that this terminology is acceptable then that is up to them. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| jazzboy.bebop Senior Member Norway norwegianthroughnove Joined 5419 days ago 439 posts - 800 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Norwegian | Message 13 of 46 30 November 2010 at 5:18pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
"Working class" is fine, lower class implies some sort of deficiency and paints the user of the phrase as arrogant. Why anger people when you don't have to? Again, big public site hosting an inflammatory private opinion. Class doesn't even need to get mentioned, it is obvious to anyone that dialects in certain places, and of people from a working class background, will generally vary more from the standard written form of the language. I don't have too much of a problem with an individual labelling somewhere as backward, or people discussing whether somewhere is backward, the problem is this is a big public site and the remarks show strong negative bias, which are not thought of as being linked to an individual but to this site as a whole. The advice can be put in a neutral way instead of the inflammatory way it has just now. For example, if someone were to speak about the standard accent or dialect taught to foreigners learning English, why not simply say that the standard accent or dialect is found around a certain area and that many variations can be found in different cities, as is explained in every other profile on the site. The English profile is the only one to hold remarks which would anger people like that, shouldn't the tone of neutrality be consistent? Does it benefit the site to put the information in such a way? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6012 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 14 of 46 01 December 2010 at 12:55am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Being blunt (unusual for me, I know), when I first came to this site I didn't get as far as the forums because of the general offensiveness and ignorance portrayed in the profiles. When I came back later, I only came to the forum and forgot about this. But even though it's only FX's opinion, it does reflect on all of us....
1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cjones Newbie United States Joined 5108 days ago 3 posts - 6 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 15 of 46 01 December 2010 at 4:59am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I agree, but calling rural English a cultural lag is a bit... rude. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Andy E Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 7104 days ago 1651 posts - 1939 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French | Message 16 of 46 01 December 2010 at 8:37am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Then stop supporting it. 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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