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TAC09 French-Goal Listening fluency (LR) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Adrean TAC 2010 Winner Senior Member France adrean83.wordpress.c Joined 6172 days ago 348 posts - 411 votes  Speaks: FrenchC1 | Message 73 of 98 03 October 2009 at 1:54am | IP Logged |
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Hi all,
I've FINALLY finished Listening-Reading The Count of Monte Cristo. I had originally planned to finish the 52 hour audiobook in 52 days but it literally took double that time. So I have spent more or less half an hour a day doing this form of study for the last 104 days. Though it was more like a week on a week off depending on my frame of mind. Most importantly, what have I learnt and how useful was it for my comprehension? I have to admit that it is almost impossible to speculate if there has been an improvement. In the intial stages of language learning it is obvious the improvement that we make but as you progress further and further along it is difficult to say what kind of affect a study like this has made. I can say certainly that with the combination of Anki and new words I constantly encounter my vocabulary is growing. I will also hesitate to say that as a result of reading this 52 hour audiobook that my comprehesion has improved. By no means can I turn on an audiobook or movie and understand everything that is being said but I feel I'm slowly getting there. I tested myself for a chapter of the book and only listened in French. I went over the text the following day in English to see what I had picked up. I can say that I picked up the plot points and followed the events correctly. But on the other hand I did not pick up the finer points or the nuances. I won't be too hard on myself though, because I know this is literature and it is a high form of the language. I'm very very happy to finally add this book to my list of accomplishments for the year. More specifically the list of books I've Listen-Read. So far this year 153 hours have been tallied up study using the L-R method Books read as part of TAC2009 Challenge 20000 Leagues Under the Sea - 15 Jane Eyre - 19.5 hours Ivanhoe by Walter Scott - 18.5 hours Persuasion - 4.5 hours Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde - 3.5 hours Contes de la Becasse - 4 hours La Mare Au Diable - 2.5 hours La Logeuse - 3.5 Un armour de Swann by Proust- 8.5 hours Bel Ami by Maupassant - 11.5 hours Germinal by Zola- 20 hours Le Comte de Monte Cristo - 52 hours Now where to go to next? Definetely I will continue to L-R. I have choosen L'etranger as my next book to L-R and I'm giving myself a couple of weeks to finish. But I must say that I like the idea of a longer book because it gives a structure to your study and you don't have to constantly look around for new resources..umm so there is less downtime. On the subject of downtime I have recentely revisited Lingq and I though I had not previously used it as a fixed form of study, it is looking for me more and more of a valuable resource. However I know with online learning that I tend to jump from one thing to another and I wonder does any worthwhile study get done. I know that online study works for some people but I need the simple structure of something like the L-R method to sometimes get things done or make real progress. If I do choose to use LingQ I have to be very clever about how I use it so it does not become a distraction. Finally it's been some time since I've watched french films on a regular basis and this is something I'm very much looking foward to. I have borrowed two films at random and hopefully I will be telling you a little about them in the coming days. So finally yes I have completed a big goal which I'm very proud of and at the moment I'm just gonna go with the flow until a new goal presents itself.. Thanks for reading Edited by Adrean on 03 October 2009 at 1:56am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Adrean TAC 2010 Winner Senior Member France adrean83.wordpress.c Joined 6172 days ago 348 posts - 411 votes Speaks: FrenchC1 | Message 75 of 98 09 October 2009 at 12:57am | IP Logged |
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Just returned from my fourth class of 32 at the Alliance Francaise. I think I have made the the right decision in taking this course. The class is I think at my level at the moment. What I think is great about the course is that it is conducted solely in French and to have it otherwise would only be a waste of time for me. We do a bit of everything in the class. We listen to recordings and recount the things we have heard. We have the chance to speak throughout the lesson. We also read and write a little. The best thing is that is enjoyable! The teacher is very 'laxed' and just needs to give a guiding hand when we need it. If I could point out a weakness which has been highlighted to me during the class, it is that I have great trouble speaking and formulating phrases. Of course I'm working on this and I think one day it will fall into place. On the other hand listening is very natural and I understand almost everything. Is this because of L-R? Perhaps.
Anyway enough about class. I will tell you all about it as my log continues. It just occured to me that I have 3 months to reach my goal of having fluent listening comprehension before 2010. I think that's rather optimistic. But stranger things have happened. I don't want to talk about the future too much but I think 2010 will be a big year language wise. I have the intention to pass some time in France and go to a language school about April next year. It's only a plan and often things can spoil plans for the better or the worse but I very much look foward to spending an extended time in France and using the skills I have learnt. I'm gonna study my butt off before then so I can make the best of the experience. If and when I do pass some time in france I wish to have a log similar to extralean when he was learning in a school. A kind of immerision log. Having said all that. It may shock or have no effect whatsoever on you to learn that I am taking my first baby steps in the Russian language. Unlike many of you I have had the capability to stick to one language for a very lone time, but, after having Russian Pimsleur and Michel Thomas stored on my hard drive for a very long time I decided finally to take the leap. Why? The strongest motivation is that I work with seven people who speak Russian fluently and currently no one at all speaks French. I know that in the future I will kick myself for not peeping into Russian just to understand a word here or there, or blurt out a Russian phrase with comedic timing. Also I'm a fan of Tarkovsky, Dostoyevsky and to a lesser extent Tolstoy, Conrad and Bulgakov. So there is a lot of room for litterature and film which are key components of my study. However I will take this study very lightly and only do it at most 30 minutes a day and only for the duration of my current job. I cannot possibly complicate things even more by taking Russian learning very seriously. I've watched two films since the last post. They couldn't possibly contrast any more then they did. The first 'Le Promeneur du champs du Mars' was excellent as a film and as language pratice. Talking, talking, talking throughout the film. It was about a former president of France in his finally days before stepping down after his 14(?) year tenure. At the time I thought it was fictional, but it was based on a real former socialist president (Mitterand or something). The other film was also excellent but had about 2 minutes of dialogue the whole film. The film was called 'l'ours' or the English title 'the bear'. I recommend to you all these two films if you can get your hands on them. Actually it seems I recommend everything I see but I am really a harsh critic just on a winning streak when picking films. Thanks for reading 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Adrean TAC 2010 Winner Senior Member France adrean83.wordpress.c Joined 6172 days ago 348 posts - 411 votes Speaks: FrenchC1 | Message 76 of 98 19 October 2009 at 11:47pm | IP Logged |
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Wow it's almost been two weeks since my last post here...
Since the last time I posted I've finished Listening-Reading L'Etranger in French. As you may know as a student of the French language this is a popular choice for students. I couldn't believe how quickly I breezed through the novel. The whole audiobook is only 3 and a half hours. As an introduction to Listening-Reading I can recommened this book because of the simple language and the absence of the liteary tense. I'm seeing the benefit of my Anki deck. There is a freely available deck of 3500 cards on anki aimed at intermediate students. A big thankyou to the guy who made this. You really know what you're doing. Why not try it? It's so satisfying to encounter a word, phrase, idiom that I've studied on Anki elsewhere. I cannot stress how valuable I've found Learn French by Podcast to be. Again it's a free resource so why not try it. Again it's aimed at the intermediate student. It's great listening practice. I was thinking to myself that if they somehow published and converted the PDF files into a book with the accompanying audio I would buy it in a minute. It's much better then the stuff which is out there. Anyone else use this podcast? I can't imagine that there is a better podcast out there. As mentioned in the previous post I've been playing with Russian a bit and saying a word here or there at work to my workmates suprise. I was speeding along with Michel Thomas Russian Foundation course until I got to disc 4 where they began to speak about genders and how genders affect adverbs. At that point I got frustrated because it became hard work which I'm not prepared to do. However I will go slowly over everything in good time. I hope to finish the 8 cd course and move onto pimsleur. I must say it is really fun to take the first steps in a new language. Everything is really really interesting all over again. And as usual I've seen a few French films. I finally saw Jean de Florette. This film seems to be in all the shops. I must've picked up this film and put it down twenty times before I borrowed it. I watched without subs and it was really hard to understand. Also saw Chroniques d'un Ete. This was a really good concept for a film which started off really well but I think they lost the idea somewhere along the way. Well at the beginning a woman went up to complete strangers and asked are you happy? Or what is happiness? As you can imagine people were shocked and did not know how to respond. Last and least I saw Toto Le Heros. Did not like this one very much. Thats all Edited by Adrean on 01 November 2009 at 12:54pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Adrean TAC 2010 Winner Senior Member France adrean83.wordpress.c Joined 6172 days ago 348 posts - 411 votes Speaks: FrenchC1 | Message 77 of 98 02 November 2009 at 1:18pm | IP Logged |
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Two weeks have passed since the last post.
Just the unvarnished facts. One season of He-Man Season 1 Total podcasts 15 hours listening - Learn French by Podcast Anki Anki Anki Classes twice a week Just one film Manon Des Source which is the sequel to Jean de Florette. No Listening-Reading. No Russian. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Adrean TAC 2010 Winner Senior Member France adrean83.wordpress.c Joined 6172 days ago 348 posts - 411 votes Speaks: FrenchC1 | Message 78 of 98 08 November 2009 at 10:53pm | IP Logged |
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I would like to talk about just a little what classes mean to me. It is contestable what one can gain from them. To me there is no possibility that someone can learn a lanaugage solely from going to class. I've seen these people and they struggle believe me. They attend all the classes, do all the homework and should therefore have a sound enough knowledge to move onto the next level. Unfortunately it's not the case. You have to put in a lot of hard hours outside of class and outside class texts and modules. So what is the purpose of class for me. 1. You get to speak in your target language! 2. You learn things you wouldn't force yourself to do otherwise. 3. Revision - if you do a lot of study outside of class you sometimes neglect revision. 4. Instant feedback. 5. Being with people on your level. Your not alone. 6. Much like this forum. The exchange of ideas, language materials, study methods, cultural learnings etc... 7. Important for me is focus. I cannot leave for a cup of tea or check my emails. The 2 hour class is 100% focus with a clear plan by teacher. I would also like to say I've never had a 'bad teacher' as many of you have had. I've had 5 very good teachers in fact. I think overall classes are just another tool that you have to use to learn a language. There is no one best tool that will make you learn, it's really a culmination of many texts, media, programs, books, audio etc.etc.etc. Actually if there is a secret to language learning it's by exposure exposure exposure. Patterns develop, structures become clear, words become apparent by context. I am sure now that immersing yourself at any oppourtunity is the best way to learn. Try various tools - Michel Thomas cannot teach you everything but Pimsleur can fill in some gaps and Learn in your car may fill in even more gaps. Watch movies, L-R, listen to interviews. Sooner or later things just come to you automatically and there will be no more gaps to fill =-) 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| doviende Diglot Senior Member Canada languagefixatio Joined 5990 days ago 533 posts - 1245 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Spanish, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Hindi, Swedish, Portuguese | Message 79 of 98 08 November 2009 at 11:53pm | IP Logged |
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Excellent point. I've always had very pleasant teachers who are enthusiastic about their jobs and well-prepared for the classes, but it's just not sufficient for the task. They usually feel obligated to teach the fine mathematical points of the grammar, but you can't learn to talk by calculating grammar rules. The best classes are where the teacher talks in the target language a lot, so that you get actual exposure.
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| Adrean TAC 2010 Winner Senior Member France adrean83.wordpress.c Joined 6172 days ago 348 posts - 411 votes Speaks: FrenchC1 | Message 80 of 98 13 November 2009 at 12:57am | IP Logged |
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Just returned from another class. We spoke about the way in which we like to read,hear or see the news. How often we read the paper. Do we simply flick through or read the whole way through. What news interests us in general and what current events are we taking an interest in. It was a conversational class. Just to respond to Doviende above, yes I agree with you 100% that classes that are conducted solely in the target language are more productive. I know that from the very beginning level that is how it is done with the Alliance Francaise.
We also had the chance to look at a sample B1 French Delf test. I'm far too tired to talk about this for now but I will in the next post. As for the rest of my studies. I've watched several films. The first was Mon Oncle D'Amerique. Excellent excellent film directed by Alan Resnais who is most famous for Hiroshima Mon Amour and Last Year at Marienbad. The behavioralist theories of a famous Psychologist were presented in story form by the lives of three characters who are somewhat intertwined. If the images do not stay with me the ideas will. I watched L'Enfant the winner of the 2005 or 2006 Palme D'Or. It's a story of a young good natured thief who lives in the moment and his girlfriend who just had a baby. It's a very gritty and grey film set in a southern Belgium city. Though not bad I don't think it will leave a lasting impression. I can't help thinking of the Wilde quote "I hate vulgar realism in literature. The man who could call a spade a spade should be compelled to use one. It is the only thing he is fit for." Last night I watched Garde a Vue by Claude Miller who directed the excellent La meilleure facon de marche. Basically a film shot in one room but interesting none-the-less. I think Garde a Vue may loosely translate as interrogation. It reminds me what a good and interesting topic interrogation can be, despite being done to death by those CSI this CSI that CSI blah blah blah shows. Anki each and everyday. Learn French by podcast. Finally I've found an excellent study tool for the intermediate wannabe advanced speaker which I'm far too tired to talk about this time but will talk about the next time. Onwards and Upwards! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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