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TAC 2010: Russian and Hebrew | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Stryozyk Newbie United States Joined 5474 days ago 39 posts - 44 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Russian | Message 1 of 24 18 December 2009 at 10:14pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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Note: All references to "Hebrew" in this log, unless otherwise stated, are to what I'm calling "rabbinical Hebrew" -
which may or may not coincide with what others know by this name. By it I mean the Hebrew used in halakhic and other religious works written from the middle ages to the present. It is therefore for my purposes solely a written language. General Notes Russian: Russian is my favorite language in the world. Nothing else even comes close. It has an indescribable effect on me - just hearing it, even if it's just some kids joking around or a boring news broadcast, makes the hair on my arms rise. It is a language of subtlety, omens, agony, pathos, profundity, and, above all, memory. When I hear it I am almost frightened because it is as if it is the language of my own soul. For years I have put off learning it because it was too big for me. (As Rilke said: Ein jeder Engel ist schrecklich. "Every angel is terrifying.") Now I'm forcing myself to take action, becaue I'm going to read Dostoyevsky in the original and watch Tarkovsky without subtitles while I'm still young. Hebrew: My knowledge of biblical Hebrew is far from complete, yet it is my inability to read "rabbinical" Hebrew that bothers me. The translations and glossaries of biblical/liturgical texts are omnipresent, and the texts themselves are always vowelized. There are a great deal of rabbinical works, however, which are currently off- limits to me due to their being neither translated nor vowelized - or, even if so, that I would like to access in the original. I've frustratedly been searching for a method by which I could improve my reading of unvowelized Hebrew and have finally found what I think is a solid procedure. Current Levels Russian: Beginner. I can read Cyrillic and I know a few words, conjugation in the present tense, and that sort of thing. Hebrew: Advanced beginner. I can read with vowels and get a lot of it, but without vowels I am rather hopeless. (Actually I can still get the meaning without the vowels. It's just that it irritates me not knowing how to pronounce it exactly.) Target Levels (by end of 2010)) Russian: Upper intermediate. I hope to reach a level of basic fluency within 18 months, so in this first year I want to build a solid foundation. Hebrew: Intermediate. To be honest my level doesn't really matter and I don't know how to predict it. Merely sticking to my project will be reward enough. Plan of Attack Russian: I will do my best to create a Russian immersion environment, AJATT-style. I will not attempt to speak or write for the first year in order not to develop the habit of "translating" from English. I'll use Pimsleur Russian to get the pronunciation and I'll work through Duff and Makaroff's Russian for Beginners for grammar. I'll read, starting with children's books, and moving on to comic books, young adult books, and finally a bit of real Russian literature. I'll collect 10,000 sentences from these sources and put them in Anki. And, of course, I'll listen to Russian audio constantly. Hebrew: I'll go through the first volume of the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch, recently released by Artscroll, and enter all phrases that I can't read without vowels into Anki, with unvowelized Hebrew as the question and the translation and pronunciation as the answer. By doing roughly a page a day I can complete this in a year. Since this plan of attack is entirely textual and the language is solely a written one, I don't think it will interfere too much with my Russian immersion environment. My minimum goal will be to do something - anything - in these languages every single day. I've found this to be the most useful way to keep myself on track even when initial or temporary enthusiasm drops off. I will keep a daily log myself and I will post the results here weekly starting in January, along with perhaps a monthly analysis. Edited by Stryozyk on 18 December 2009 at 10:16pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| couragepiece93 Groupie United States Joined 5772 days ago 77 posts - 78 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Norwegian, Latin | Message 2 of 24 19 December 2009 at 3:30am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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Good luck! I know what you mean about Russian, for some reason I've always loved Russian - It's probably my favorite language. I tried to learn it before, but the sounds are too hard for me. Good luck, I hope you reach your goals!
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| nogoodnik Senior Member United States Joined 5573 days ago 372 posts - 461 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Modern Hebrew, Biblical Hebrew, Russian, French | Message 3 of 24 20 December 2009 at 3:30am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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I'm definitely going to be reading your log this year and am especially interested in your project with the Kitzur
Shulchan Aruch. I was planning to try something similar with the Chumash or some of the Psalms, but I got lazy. I'm also obsessed with the Russian language, so much so, that I went to live in Brighton Beach, Brooklyn for some time in order to hear Russian constantly. I know that you mentioned not speaking for the first year, but since you referenced Pimsleur I'd also recommend Michel Thomas' Russian courses. Also the Princeton Russian Course can be downloaded free and legally and it looks fantastic--lots of audio and realistic dialogues. Best of luck 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Stryozyk Newbie United States Joined 5474 days ago 39 posts - 44 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Russian | Message 4 of 24 21 December 2009 at 12:32am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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Thanks so much, everyone, for the comments. Couragepiece, for some reason Russian has always been
the *easiest* language to pronounce for me (well, next to Spanish). This may have to do with the fact that I watched tons of Russian movies over and over before learning any of it and because I love it so much my ear is especially tuned to it. But I think the credit mainly goes to my having gone through Pimsleur's Russian 1 course several years ago. Obviously you cannot learn even the basics of a language from Pimsleur, but as far as pronunciation and aural recognition training goes it is impeccable. I recall that the sound of the Russian "soft" consonants gave me trouble at first, but after going through those thirty lessons twice, they're as natural as anything. Russian is certainly the funnest language for me to speak, as well. Nogoodnik, that's awesome, I would love to live in an area with a Russian population. I plan not to speak the first year in the sense that I won't try to come up with my own sentences (in the past I've tended to unknowingly anglicize my speech by trying this too early) but I will work on pronunciation and mimicking. I've never seen the Michael Thomas course in shops but I will have a look at it. The Princeton Russian Course looks good as well - we are lucky in that there are a good number of Russian resources online. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Stryozyk Newbie United States Joined 5474 days ago 39 posts - 44 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Russian | Message 5 of 24 21 December 2009 at 7:15am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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I had meant to take up my Russian study only in January, but I haven't been able to help myself and have
begun reading a little book by Assimil I found somewhere, Le Russe sans peine from the fifties. I've gone through the first fifteen lessons and am becoming very fond of this little book. It's been so long since I have properly studied a new language - all my efforts for the last few years have mainly been at trying to keep my French/German/Spanish skills from totally deteriorating - that I've forgotten how fun it is. Every lesson I am pleasantly surprised to find up to a dozen words that I am learning for the very first time. I'll put the ones I want to remember here. Первый, второй, третий, четвёртый, пятый, шестой, седьмой, восьмой, девятый, десятый 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. Вы очень любезны. You are very kind. Я всегда рад когда помогаю. I am always happy to help. Я голоден. I'm hungry. Кто его знает? Who knows? Можно-ли мне сегодня гулять? Can I go for a walk today? Ваш папа против этого. Your father is against it. Но я больше не болен. But I'm not sick any more. Мне нужен воздух. I need fresh air. Это вам вредно. It's not good for you. Она работает довольно хорошо. She works pretty well. Я сейчас не могу итти к вам. I can't come over right now. Мне некогда. I don't have time. Это возможно. It's possible. Я сам играю в теннис. I play tennis myself. Ко мне. Towards me. Я у неё обедаю. I'm eating dinner at her place. Я не свободен. I'm not free. В другой раз. Another time. Я сейчас очень занят. I'm very busy at the moment. Тогда послезавтра. Then the day after tomorrow. Вы можете ей найти место. You can find her a place. Она говорит свободно по-английски. She speaks English fluently. Каждый день одно и то же. Every day it's the same thing. Вы ведь не учите наизусть? You're still not learning by heart? Я часто забываю. I often forget. Всё-таки... All the same... Молодец! Good lad! Мне кажется... It seems to me... Так и надо! That's what it takes! Надо повторять, ещё и ещё. You have to repeat, over and over. Очи чёрные, очи страстные. Black eyes, passionate eyes. Очи жгучие и прекрасные. Burning, splendid eyes. Как боюсь я вас. How I fear you. Знать увидел вас я в недобрый час. Verily, I saw you in a sinister hour. Edited by Stryozyk on 21 December 2009 at 7:29am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| RedKing'sDream Diglot Groupie United States Joined 5803 days ago 53 posts - 68 votes Speaks: English*, Russian Studies: Ukrainian | Message 6 of 24 21 December 2009 at 8:45am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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Stryozyk,
Some of the above are wrong, and others are overly formal or archaic--that should be obvious from the "good lad" nonsense. I would beware of books printed that long ago. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Stryozyk Newbie United States Joined 5474 days ago 39 posts - 44 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Russian | Message 7 of 24 21 December 2009 at 11:11pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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Thank you for the warning. Which in particular strike you as wrong? The mistakes may very well have to do
with my own transcriptions/translations. My knowledge of French is only marginal and so I may be misunderstanding some things. The translation they gave for молодец was more like "congratulations", but they said that it wasn't a literal translation so I substituted the "good lad". In addition I noticed they spell идти as итти, but I kept this as I figured it was an old spelling. The last three sentences are from a song, which explains the strange structure. I am not overly concerned about this unless there are more striking grammatical errors, because I am using this only as an introduction to the language, and not as something which I intend on imitating. Grammar and basic vocabulary don't change too much and therefore I think there is still plenty to be learned from older books. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| SII Senior Member Russian FederationRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5796 days ago 184 posts - 194 votes Speaks: Russian* Studies: English | Message 8 of 24 22 December 2009 at 11:58pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
It is better to say: Я всегда рад помочь. When you write as you wrote you must use the comma: "Я всегда рад, когда помогаю".
"Кто _его_ знает?" is translated as "Who knows _him_?". If you want to ask impersonally, you must say "Кто знает?"
You must write "можно ли" without the hyphen.
Мне нужен _свежий_ воздух.
"идти" and only "идти".
Usually we say "я занят" (I'm busy).
"Молодец" has two meanings. The first meaning is "good boy, fine young man" etc; the second one is a praise addressing to somebody: "attaboy/attagirl, you did well! you made it!" etc.
There is part of popular old Russian song. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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