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TAC2010- Team I- Japanese and more | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Brun Ugle Diglot Senior Member Norway brunugle.wordpress.c Joined 6624 days ago 1292 posts - 1766 votes  Speaks: English*, NorwegianC1 Studies: Japanese, Esperanto, Spanish, Finnish | Message 1 of 22 22 December 2009 at 9:54pm | IP Logged |
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Here is my TAC log for 2010. I'm planning to concentrate on Japanese, but also work a little on English and the Scandinavian languages since I've been so slack the past few years.
First, my background: I'm an American and have lived in Norway for 10 years. My English is of course fluent, but according to certain family members, I've picked up a really hilarious accent in my time here. So, I am an American, but most Americans don't believe me when I tell them that. I studied Norwegian on my own before coming to Norway and found it unbelievably easy. I think it might be the easiest language for an English speaker to learn. The dialects can be a problem though. My language studies before that point consisted of Spanish in high school, about a year of Chinese in college and a bit of Japanese on my own. I've tried several times to go back to these languages, as well as dabbling in others, but my methods were too haphazard and I have never progressed. Then I decided to take them one at a time. I'm going to start with Japanese and work up to the point where I can continue to progress without consciously studying. By that, I mean that I will continue to learn new things simply by reading, watching movies, etc. for my own enjoyment. I hope to be able to accomplish this by the end of 2010. Then I will do Spanish in 2011 and Chinese in 2012 then start something new in 2013 and so on. (That might be a bit too ambitious...) My current levels: English: I'm a native speaker (with a slightly funny accent). My problem is that I've let things go. I used to have a better than average vocabulary and very good writing skills, but now I feel like I've lost most of that and want it back. I also have trouble talking/writing about economic matters. I studied economics in Norway and can speak fluently on the subject in Norwegian, but can hardly manage to explain my job to my own mother because I lack the necessary vocabulary in English. It's also a problem at work since they always assume I can translate anything that needs translating. Norwegian: I speak fluently, near native (with a slightly funny accent). I should probably polish my accent. It's not really an American accent, since I don't have one of those even in English, but if I say more than a couple of sentences, most Norwegians realize that I'm not Norwegian. I should also polish my language in general, in much the same way as with English. I also need very much to strengthen my Nynorsk. Swedish and Danish: I've never studied these, but like most Norwegian speakers, I can understand them somewhat. I understand the written languages fairly well, but my reading speed is a good bit slower than in English or Norwegian. The spoken language is more difficult. I don't have much trouble with Swedish, but I have to make a great effort to understand spoken Danish. Japanese: I have no opportunities to speak the language, and my general skills in other areas are probably upper beginner or lower intermediate. I basically need to improve everything. In other words, I stink. My goals for 2010: English, Norwegian, Swedish, and Danish: I'm not really planning to study these in the traditional sense of the word. I intend to improve my vocabulary and better my usage of English, increase my reading speed and ease of understanding the written language in Nynorsk, Swedish and Danish, and improve my listening skills in Swedish and Danish. To do this I will try to read books of reasonably good quality, and in the cases of Swedish and Danish, also try to watch movies or listen to the radio. I might also try to improve my accent in Norwegian, but not until later in the year. Japanese: I have rather few opportunities to attempt speaking, so I'll mostly concentrate on the other skills for now. My main goal is to be able to read books/newspapers, watch movies and listen to the radio with a clear enough understanding that I'm able to enjoy them without the need for excessive rereading, rewinding or dictionary use. I've broken that down into smaller goals that I think will be necessary to achieve my main goal. I'll try to update this as I go: Kanji & kana Learn all 3007 kanji in the Heisig books along with their most common on and kun pronunciations. Vocabulary Learn about 10 000 words, primarily those on the JLPT lists, since I am assuming those are the most frequent/ important. Grammar Gain a natural feel for the grammar such that I know what is right because it sounds right in the same manner as I know what is right in English and Norwegian. Starting levels Kanji & kana I know the kana. I am nearly finished with the first Heisig book and know the writing of the first 1979 kanji plus a few others. I know a lot of the readings for those necessary for JLPT4 and some others. Vocabulary I'm not quite sure, but probably at least 2000 words. Grammar I have a pretty good understanding of basic grammar. I have gone through the book "Japanese for Everyone". I have a feel for a good bit of the grammar introduced there. Other things, I know how to use, but have not yet gotten a completely natural feel for. Methods I will continue to use the Heisig books, and the website: http://kanji.koohii.com/ which is wonderful for learning kanji. And http://www.readthekanji.com/ which is nice for readings, but a bit slow. I'll also use the 10 000 sentences method with Anki, but I don't think I'll manage that many sentences. I will actively look for sentences at a level that I can understand and which contain the vocabulary and grammar from the JLPT lists. At first I'll probably take examples from my texts and dictionaries, but later I intend to use primarily real-world sources. I will probably be updating this page as I go along. I might modify and add goals. I don't feel I'm quite finished with that yet. I'm open to suggestions both on what I should work on and on methods and techniques that may be helpful to me. I am also happy to help anyone I can if there are questions regarding English or Norwegian and I will of course share tips on what materials and techniques I find helpful for learning Japanese. My biggest problem is going to be that the start of TAC coincides with the start of our busiest time at work. We tend to work a lot of overtime from January to June, take six or seven weeks vacation in summer, then have brief bursts of activity, interspersed with much thumb-twiddling in the fall. So unfortunately, my studying will probably be very slow in the beginning. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Brun Ugle Diglot Senior Member Norway brunugle.wordpress.c Joined 6624 days ago 1292 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English*, NorwegianC1 Studies: Japanese, Esperanto, Spanish, Finnish | Message 2 of 22 27 December 2009 at 10:48am | IP Logged |
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Still a week to go before the official start of TAC 2010, but I started early and am now finished with my first week.
My big achievement for the week was finishing Remembering the Kanji I. To those who are in doubt about using this book or who have come part way and are struggling, I'd like to say that it is fantastic. There were times when I thought I'd never be able to get some group of kanji, or when I seemed to forget everything I learned, but it all comes together in the end. It makes an amazing difference in reading abilities too. I find it much easier to guess at the meanings of things and can understand whole sentences even when there are quite a few new words. If you're using the RTK book, I really recommend the website http://kanji.koohii.com/ It uses a spaced repetition system to help you review the kanji. It also has a study page where people share their stories for each kanji. I found it tremendously helpful for coming up with good stories. Also there are hints about which kanji can be confused with others and better ways to remember the primatives. There is also a nice site for learning the readings. http://www.readthekanji.com/ I find it very helpful. The only problem is it sometimes can be a bit slow. If you want to use it, I suggest you join up soon because they have started to charge for using it, but they are having a limited time offer on a lifetime membership for $10. I'm a little uncertain about what to do now. I'm waiting for RTK II and III to arrive. They should be here tomorrow. I've been trying to make cards for Anki, but I'm afraid I might have too little time for using it. I wish I could download it, but I have to use the online version and I don't have much time to go online and I'm already using my online time on those other two sites I mentioned. I've got a bunch of Japanese anime movies that I'm using at the moment. I've found the scripts for some of them and am making some cards from those. I can only catch a few words when I watch them, but I think by reading the scripts, I will then know what's being said and will be able to catch a bit more. Right now I'm doing Kiki's Delivery Service because I like this movie so much. It's not very easy for me though. I think Totoro is probably easiest because they often speak in short sentences which makes it easier for beginners. If anyone else wants to try the same method, here is where I found the scripts: http://www.geocities.jp/ohmu2rko/index.html OK. I think that's enough for now. Good luck to everyone (especially Team I). Brun Ugle PS. When I tried to write the names of the movies in Japanese, it looked fine when I wrote it, but when I clicked preview, the characters were all wrong. Anybody know why? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| mumusik Newbie Korea, South Joined 6310 days ago 38 posts - 38 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Korean | Message 3 of 22 27 December 2009 at 2:28pm | IP Logged |
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What does trong mean?
1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Luai_lashire Diglot Senior Member United States luai-lashire.deviant Joined 5832 days ago 384 posts - 560 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto Studies: Japanese, French | Message 4 of 22 28 December 2009 at 2:26am | IP Logged |
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Hello, Brun Ugle! :) I am also on team I for the TAC challenge!
Congratulations on completing RTK 1! I've been waffling on whether or not to get it, but I think I will. I've been learning kanji in the context of the vocabulary I'm studying, but it just isn't enough. Have you seen the list of free Japanese audiobooks & their transcripts that was posted on this forum? It's here: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp? TID=6241 That might provide some good reading and listening practice. :) 頑張ってよ！ 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Brun Ugle Diglot Senior Member Norway brunugle.wordpress.c Joined 6624 days ago 1292 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English*, NorwegianC1 Studies: Japanese, Esperanto, Spanish, Finnish | Message 5 of 22 01 January 2010 at 12:08pm | IP Logged |
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Hi all!
I'm getting a bit annoyed here. I've tried to post this twice and it's disappeared both times. This time, I'm going to write it in Word first so I at least don't lose it completely. Anyway, TAC begins officially today! I'm very excited because this is going to be the year I finally conquer Japanese. I'm also a bit nervous because I have to go back to work on Monday and January starts the busy season. I'll have lots of overtime and have to struggle to find time to study. Of course, I'll still be able to study a bit on the train. First, I'll answer a few questions: To Mumusik: I think "trong" showed up because of the problems with Javascript. I'll correct it when the problem is fixed. It doesn't mean anything as far as I know. To Luai_lashire: Thank you! I must admit, I'm feeling a bit pleased with myself. Books 2 and 3 have just arrived in the post. I'm trying to decide how best to approach them. Thank you for the link. I was aware of it. I've also found this site: http://www.aozora.gr.jp/ It has books, articles, speeches and such like. I was a bit intimidated at first because the site is all in Japanese, but it really wasn't so bad. I found and downloaded a few things to work on: "Little Women", "Frankenstein", and "Yes, Virginia there is a Santa Claus". I thought it best to start with some things that I'm familiar with as that will be easier than something completely unknown. I don't know if you like anime movies like "Totoro", "Spirited Away", and "Kiki's Delivery Service", but I found a few scripts here: http://www.geocities.jp/ohmu2rko/index.html My listening skills are a bit lower than my reading skills, so I read the scripts while watching the movies and I find I catch a lot more of the dialogue. I feel it will help improve my listening skills. It's a bit easier than audiobooks because the sentences are shorter and there are pauses in the dialogue that allow me to catch up when I get behind. I also have a question for you, or anyone who can answer. How do you post in Japanese? I can type in Japanese using the IME that comes standard on the computer. It looks fine when I type it, but when I try to preview the post, it just looks like nonsense. Brun Ugle 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Brun Ugle Diglot Senior Member Norway brunugle.wordpress.c Joined 6624 days ago 1292 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English*, NorwegianC1 Studies: Japanese, Esperanto, Spanish, Finnish | Message 6 of 22 01 January 2010 at 12:15pm | IP Logged |
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Hi again!
Global_gizzy asked privately about how I got to a lower intermediate level in Japanese, so I thought I'd write a bit about it here. However, I learned rather haphazardly, so I don't think I would recommend it. I first studied Japanese some fifteen years ago. I used the book "Japanese for Everyone" (JFE). I liked that book quite a lot. Some people don't, but I guess it seemed very logical to me. I have a rather mathematical type of brain, so it appealed to me. I also tried "Remembering the Kanji" (RTK) and quite liked it, but I struggled to come up with stories and to review in an effective manner, so I never finished. Now it's much easier because of the website http://kanji.koohii.com/ When I took up Japanese again a few months ago, I zipped though the book fairly easily using that site. If anyone has doubts about RTK, I want to say that I remembered almost all the Kanji I'd learned from the book 15 years ago even though I hadn't used them in years. The past few months, I've been going through JFE again to reacquaint myself with the grammar. I also completed the first RTK book. I have some books of Doraemon and some old issues of Nihongo Journal from 15 years ago that I've been reading and some things I've found on the internet. I've been reading scripts from some of my favorite anime movies among other things. I copy sentences into Anki to review. About half of them I put the sentences as is (with Kanji) on the front and on the back I write them in hiragana so I can check my Kanji readings. I also put definitions of unfamiliar words on the back. I use only Japanese for the definitions, but I think it is probably necessary to have a basic vocabulary before you start this. Until that point, use your native language or other familiar language for the definitions. The other half of the cards, I do the same way, but with the sentence written completely in hiragana on front and the same sentence with Kanji on the back. When I review these, I do it by writing out the sentence myself, with Kanji. I have to understand the sentence and write it correctly. Studying is radically easier now than it was back in the day. The internet has given me access to all kinds of study aids that weren't easily available before. I especially like the spaced repetition systems like Anki. These make reviewing much easier and more effective. I also like to listen to a bit of news in Japanese and try to read on topics I find interesting. The hard part at this stage is finding things that are at the right level. I've been reading things that I've read before in English or on topics that I know a lot about. That makes it a bit easier. When I learned Norwegian, I could read things intended for children when I was at this level. Those were good because they were easy enough to read without constantly looking in a dictionary, but there were always a few new words that I could pick up in context. That doesn't work in Japanese. Children's books are often difficult because of the lack of kanji. Ideally, one should read and listen to things at a level where one already knows about 90% of the vocabulary and grammar and can pick up the other 10% from context. It's difficult to find anything like that in Japanese, but reading things I've read before helps. It's also important to read things that are so much fun that you forget how difficult it is. Brun Ugle 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6772 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 7 of 22 01 January 2010 at 12:19pm | IP Logged |
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Brun, I'm glad to see your commitment to Japanese and the excellent progress you have made so far.
I have not had any trouble posting to this forum in Japanese. What OS and browser are you using? Older versions of Windows and some browsers (IE mainly) might try encoding the Japanese text you post in a format other than Unicode, which will end up becoming gibberish when the database stores your post. Edited by Captain Haddock on 01 January 2010 at 12:21pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Luai_lashire Diglot Senior Member United States luai-lashire.deviant Joined 5832 days ago 384 posts - 560 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto Studies: Japanese, French | Message 8 of 22 01 January 2010 at 6:19pm | IP Logged |
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I think I may know the problem. When I posted in Japanese on my log, I also previewed
the post and found that the japanese characters did not show up. However, when I went ahead and posted the Japanese anyway, it showed correctly on the actual thread. I suspect that the preview function on this site is somehow incapable of displaying characters correctly, but they display fine on the actual forum. これはテストです。<- this shows as a bunch of random gibberish characters in preview. Let's see if it works in a post. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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