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Has Japanese been watered down? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| lichtrausch Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5961 days ago 525 posts - 1072 votes  Speaks: English*, German, Japanese Studies: Korean, Mandarin | Message 9 of 53 11 February 2010 at 6:35pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
These 200 or so Kanji are being added to the 常用漢字 this year or next year. Good times for Japanese. http://clipp.jp/assets/c1/c1ee1fbf413dea71fb5feaab3d343c0b_5 00.jpg
Personally I don't care one way or the other if native Japanese words are written in Kana or Kanji. But few things annoy me more than seeing Chinese loan words written in kana or as 混ぜ書き. The next time I see 改ざん or 隠ぺい I'm going to blow someone's head off. These mixed forms unquestionably hinder the flow and readability of any sentence they are found in. If you really think people aren't going to be able to read 改竄 or 隠蔽, by all means throw on some furigana but DO NOT write it in 混ぜ書き. Note: people can write in their private lives however they want in order to make it faster or whatever. I'm only talking about official publications and the media.
Varies from case to case. I don't think anyone over the age of 7 has a problem with non-jouyou kanji such as 誰、頃、俺. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| IronFist Senior Member United States Joined 6438 days ago 663 posts - 941 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 10 of 53 12 February 2010 at 6:01am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Now that's passion! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6769 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 11 of 53 12 February 2010 at 6:17am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Nice, thanks for that link! That's in addition to the 12 or so that were already added last year. Hm, perhaps with 箋 on the list, drug stores will stop putting 処方せん on their signs. There's also an upswing in Chinese study, which may or may not contribute to general kanji knowledge. Mind you, Japanese kanji use resembles classical Chinese more than modern Mandarin, but still. Edited by Captain Haddock on 12 February 2010 at 6:18am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Gon-no-suke Triglot Senior Member Japan Joined 6435 days ago 156 posts - 191 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Japanese, EnglishC2 Studies: Korean, Malay, Swahili | Message 12 of 53 12 February 2010 at 7:49am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Make sure you blow the right head off! The writers are just following the dictation of the 文部省 (I think). As for the original question - no, I don't think it is getting watered down; as the Captain said the meaning and nuance is often slightly different than the original word. There are a lot of exception though, but it is a matter of personal writing style in the end. Edited by Gon-no-suke on 12 February 2010 at 7:52am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| hombre gordo Triglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5584 days ago 184 posts - 247 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Japanese Studies: Portuguese, Korean | Message 13 of 53 12 February 2010 at 11:21am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Native undergratuates cant even read those words! They would be more difficult if written in Kana in my opinion. I understood them all with no problem precisely because they were written in Kanji. Tyr mentioned earlier that the more Kana the easier. That may be true in the beginning, but when you get a an advanced reading level there certainly is the opposite feeling. Excessive Kana become an hundle, or ハードル！！！ and Kanji serves for better understanding. If Kanji werent a huge help in aiding understanding, I think they would have been abolished centuries ago. I am pleased to have gotten responses with similar views as myself. Regarding the recent influx of western loanwards, among learners of the Japanese language there are two factions. The purist faction and the loanword-tolerant faction. Whenever I have debated this topic in the past (including with people in real life, not just on the internet) I have always gotten the feeling that the loanword-tolerant faction seem to argue in favour of the influx of western loanwords just because they personally think that the loanwords are "cool", "trendy" or "hip". However, they have never offered any arguement to convince me that the excessive influx of loanords benifits the language. Some people may think they are cool, but do they really make reading easier or more efficient (for natives and learners alike)? I am more convinced by the arguement that they actually have the reverse effect. I have read articles about western loanwords written by Japanese authors who identify that these new words can potentially be problematic, especially for the elder generations. Back to the main topic. Has Japanese been watered down? If compared with war time and pre-war Japanese I think the answer is yes. Novels from that time period seem to be more Kanji dense than the ones these days and the ocurrences of western loanwords replacing/displacing perfectly proper Japanese words were much fewer. However, I think there is light ahead. As one of the posters above has identified, the Japanese government will soon expand the Joyo Kanji. Edited by hombre gordo on 12 February 2010 at 11:24am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6769 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 14 of 53 12 February 2010 at 11:55am | IP Logged | ||||||||
There was a lot of trendy pre-War gairaigo that has become obsolete and is no longer in use. Maybe pre-War novelists just didn't mimic vernacular speech patterns in their writing as much, and used more kanji to make it seem literary. Have you ever read common people's Japanese from before the War? I read a few diary excerpts from a textbook once, and it was written at least half in katakana. (Not katakana loanwords, but katakana used for regular words and okurigana.) Edited by Captain Haddock on 12 February 2010 at 11:57am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Pyx Diglot Senior Member China Joined 5736 days ago 670 posts - 892 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: Mandarin | Message 15 of 53 12 February 2010 at 5:10pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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A language evolves! Oh noes!
9 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| nescafe Senior Member Japan Joined 5410 days ago 137 posts - 227 votes | Message 16 of 53 13 February 2010 at 3:34am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Some years ago, ten years? Kogal-language (high school girls language) were in fashion. It was so terrible language that only Kogals (High school girls) could understand it.
Out of 眼中 = out of sight = 眼中にない チョベリバ = 超ベリーバッド = very worst, extremly very bad, This kind of crazy language! Now Old Chinese loanwords might sound to Japanese people like a language of the old, pre war regime of Empire. Too stern, too grand, too intellectual. Even some administrative words has changed in Kana, for example now 埼玉県 Saitama prefecture is さいたま県, I hate this. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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