Has Japanese been watered down? (Specific Languages) Language Learning Forum

Has Japanese been watered down?
Tags: Loanwords \| Cultural Identity \| Kanji \| Japanese
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Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages

53 messages over 7 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next >>

lichtrausch
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Message 17 of 53

13 February 2010 at 4:59am | IP Logged

nescafe wrote:

Now Old Chinese loanwords might sound to Japanese people like a language of the old, pre war regime of Empire. Too stern, too grand, too intellectual. Even some administrative words has changed in Kana, for example now 埼玉県 Saitama prefecture is さいたま県, I hate this.

I think you mean さいたま市. I agree with your point though. I'm hopeful that with the spread of Mandarin, Chinese characters and loan words will become more prestigious and popular again.
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IronFist
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Message 18 of 53

13 February 2010 at 5:55am | IP Logged

nescafe wrote:

超ベリーバッド = very worst, extremly very bad,

I think 超 was the first kanji I ever learned. Well, maybe after watashi. I think I learned it from Dragon Ball Z, from Super Saiyajin or something.

Does that say "super very bad" (suupaa beriibaddo)? lol.
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nescafe
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Message 19 of 53

13 February 2010 at 11:15am | IP Logged

lichtrausch wrote:

I think you mean さいたま市.

Oh sorry, you are right. さいたま市.

IronFist wrote:

Does that say "super very bad" (suupaa beriibaddo)? lol.

Yes, "超 = super" is frequently used by young people, and it appearently came in popular use through the influence of Manga.

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Sandman
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Message 20 of 53

13 February 2010 at 11:49am | IP Logged

Well, if they slowly move every word to a kana form and drop some of those excess "vowels" then we'll all be able to speak Japanese :)

I'm for it!

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John Smith
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Message 21 of 53

13 February 2010 at 4:21pm | IP Logged

IronFist wrote:

Captain Haddock wrote:

I would assume the internet helps in this regard, too. If Japanese people are reading the internet and see a kanji they don't know, it takes two seconds to look it up and eventually they'll probably remember what it means.

Although I have no idea if there is Japanese internet slang that is actually corrupting the language the way it is in English. I would guess probably the answer is yes, but probably not as bad, since like you said, Japanese people value being educated and it's not considered "cool" to speak a corruption of the language, like whatever the Japanese equivalent of "where is you at?"

^^ The internet isn't corrupting English. I'm sure that Shakespeare would faint if he managed to get his hands on anything written today. Even by our most accomplished writers. It's all relative.

O brother, where art thou?
Brother, where are you?
Bro where is you at?

Edited by John Smith on 13 February 2010 at 4:23pm
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IronFist
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Message 22 of 53

13 February 2010 at 6:58pm | IP Logged

Sandman wrote:

Well, if they slowly move every word to a kana form and drop some of those excess "vowels" then we'll all be able to speak Japanese :)

I'm for it!

You forgot adding spaces between words!

And there's no problem with vowels in Japanese. The number (length) of vowels sometimes determines the meaning of the word.

But, Japanese definitely needs spaces between words, and if they're gonna get rid of Kanji, then they DEFINITELY need spaces between words.
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IronFist
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Message 23 of 53

13 February 2010 at 7:00pm | IP Logged

John Smith wrote:

O brother, where art thou?
Brother, where are you?
Bro where is you at?

Bro where u @?
Where u b?

I don't think the change from "O brother, where art thou?" to "Brother, where are you?" was a corruption of grammar or anything, it was just "are" replacing "art" and "you" replacing "thou."

It's totally different from the change to "where you at?" or "where you be?" or "where is you?" or anything along those lines, which are grammatically wrong.

Edited by IronFist on 13 February 2010 at 7:01pm
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cameroncrc
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Message 24 of 53

14 February 2010 at 3:54am | IP Logged

Captain Haddock wrote:

It's easy to get discouraged, but I see bright signs.

1. Japanese basically only borrows nouns, and seems to have been a promiscuous borrower most of its history. However,
the language itself is heavily verb and particle oriented, and that core seems to solidly resist borrowings. And most
borrowed nouns either become uniquely Japanese words with meanings distinct from the original, or simply disappear
again over time like a fad.

It "basically" only borrows nouns, but it certainly doesn't "solidly resist" other types of words. There are many verbs and even adjectives that come from other languages(mainly English) that are quite common today.
Some examples:

アップする - to "up", from English "upgrade"
デートする - to date
エンジョイする - to enjoy
ゲットする - to "get", (prize, award)
プリントする - to print
コピーする - to copy
ストップする - to stop
シンプルな - simple
ユニークな - unique

Quote:

2. I would hazard a guess that knowledge and use of kanji among the general public is actually at a historical high, now
that they have a bustling industrial economy where most people can afford schooling and being well-educated is
respected (unlike many parts of the West). Bit by bit, the joyo list is getting longer as the government realizes their
attempts to trim and streamline the language's use of kanji was both ill-advised and futile. Personal computer use is
lower among regular people than in the West thanks to the early adoption of cell phones for simple computing tasks, so
most people still keep diaries and day planners on paper and keep their writing skills up as a result.

The government is certainly stepping in on Kanji's behalf. I'm not sure but is this why so many Japanese shows have those insane subtitles? One thing I've noticed is that singers are using very difficult kanji in their official lyrics, and so when you go to karaoke you will see 此処 instead of ここ and 訊く instead of　聞く. There are even words that I didn't know could be written in kanji, like "かわいい" which is actually 可愛い.　However, I've seen occasions where students have forgotten how to write simple kanji in words like "parents" and "to smell". One time a classmate next to me forgot how to write うれしい　and had to ask me!

Edited by cameroncrc on 14 February 2010 at 3:58am

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