Has Japanese been watered down? (Specific Languages) Language Learning Forum

Has Japanese been watered down?
Tags: Loanwords \| Cultural Identity \| Kanji \| Japanese
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Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages

53 messages over 7 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next >>

nescafe
Senior Member
Japan
Joined 5410 days ago
137 posts - 227 votes

Message 33 of 53

16 February 2010 at 3:51am | IP Logged

According to the ORICON STYLE RANKING, the top three hardest everyday use Kanji are

[1] 薔薇: rose, notorious kanji for no one can write it correctly.
[2] 挨拶: greetiang, this is a very common kanji, but out of "formal use 常用漢字"
[3] 憂鬱: (emotional) depression, blue, 鬱 is anotheor out of formal use Kanji.
4 persons have voted this message useful

Miznia
Diglot
Newbie
United States
Joined 5352 days ago
37 posts - 42 votes
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Cantonese, Korean, Thai, Vietnamese

Message 34 of 53

01 April 2010 at 8:08pm | IP Logged

aabram wrote:

As for Japanese kana and kanji mess, as a beginner I do find the hardest part having to
decipher long strings of kana, trying to decide where grammatical function holders end
and where words written in kana begin. I'd be much happier with all-kanji words, and all-
kana grammar. Sometimes I think that should have I picked Chinese I'd be reading much
better by now. Heck, I could be reading the text, instead of tokenizing.

I think you're right... Japanese limited to kanji and (when needed) hiragana seems easiest to read. Writing in Chinese has a nice aspect that one character is pronounced as one syllable and probably either means something by itself, or in combination with a character right next to it. If you speak English you can have luck just going through a Chinese sentence word by word...
1 person has voted this message useful

Arekkusu
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Canada
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Joined 5382 days ago
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Speaks: English, French*, German^C1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto
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Message 35 of 53

01 April 2010 at 8:36pm | IP Logged

hombre gordo wrote:

Does anyone else get the feeling that the great language of this beautiful land of Japan in recent years has been watered down or is in that process?

I personally think that pre-war era Japanese looked so awesome.

I have yet to hear someone say that language X is in the process of becoming more beautiful or better.

When you consider the amount of mixing that went on to create English, whether it's today's English or English from 500 years ago, you have to conclude 1) that preserving languages from evolution is a lost battle and 2) that there is no such thing as better or more beautiful when it comes to languages. After all, it's nothing but the arbitrary association of sound and meaning.

hombre gordo wrote:

First of all there is the over the top acceptance of loanwords or western origin. I have debated this problem before so no need to go into it to deeply. It is evident that most are not even necessary because it is a fact that there are already perfectly good words which could be used.

Loanword don't always mean exactly the same thing as pre-existing similar words in the language. Often times, the borrowed word brings a nuance that other words don't have, not become of the intrinsic qualities of the borrowed word itself, but because it creates a new handle onto which to attach a meaning that needed a place to go.
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Pyx
Diglot
Senior Member
China
Joined 5736 days ago
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Speaks: German*, English
Studies: Mandarin

Message 36 of 53

02 April 2010 at 5:34am | IP Logged

hombre gordo wrote:

It is evident that most are not even necessary because it is a fact that there are already perfectly good words which could be used.

Haha, the wording is great. "It is evident that.." :) Especially since "it is evident that" there was a need for this new word or else it wouldn't have come into use in the first place. It's not like I (and most people around me) start calling a table "zhuozi" just for the heck of it, or anything like that :)
1 person has voted this message useful

lichtrausch
Triglot
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United States
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Message 37 of 53

02 April 2010 at 6:26am | IP Logged

Pyx wrote:

Especially since "it is evident that" there was a need for this new word or else it wouldn't have come into use in the first place.

Are you joking?
2 persons have voted this message useful

Arekkusu
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Canada
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Joined 5382 days ago
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Speaks: English, French*, German^C1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto
Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian

Message 38 of 53

02 April 2010 at 4:36pm | IP Logged

Pyx wrote:

hombre gordo wrote:

It is evident that most are not even necessary because
it is a fact that there are already perfectly good words which could be used.

Haha, the wording is great. "It is evident that.." :) Especially since "it is evident
that" there was a need for this new word or else it wouldn't have come into use in the
first place. It's not like I (and most people around me) start calling a table "zhuozi"
just for the heck of it, or anything like that :)

... I almost fell off my yizi.
1 person has voted this message useful

Miznia
Diglot
Newbie
United States
Joined 5352 days ago
37 posts - 42 votes
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Cantonese, Korean, Thai, Vietnamese

Message 39 of 53

02 April 2010 at 7:54pm | IP Logged

Languages don't only borrow English words because there is a need for them...
1 person has voted this message useful

Pyx
Diglot
Senior Member
China
Joined 5736 days ago
670 posts - 892 votes

Speaks: German*, English
Studies: Mandarin

Message 40 of 53

03 April 2010 at 4:18am | IP Logged

Miznia wrote:

Languages don't only borrow English words because there is a need for them...

You guys are thinking too narrow-minded. Referring to a thing that there is no other word for is not the only 'need' for a word. If a loaned word is shorter, shows your belonging to a certain group, is easier to say, or just plain sounds cooler, then these are all 'needs'. I stand by my words, these things don't happen for no reason. There was a certain itch they scratched, or otherwise they wouldn't have found widespread adoption, and it's stupid to say that there is ('evidently') no need at all for them!

7 persons have voted this message useful

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