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Spanish Phonology | ||
Tags: Pronunciation | Spanish | ||
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| crafedog Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5819 days ago 166 posts - 337 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Korean, Tok Pisin, French | Message 1 of 15 14 October 2010 at 12:11pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hello everyone.
I've recently started relearning Spanish (I was originally at a high-intermediate/low- advanced level). I've been listening to Democracy Now in Spanish and trying to follow the written Spanish but it's a bit tough. I can still understand a fair amount but I'm miles away from replicating the speed or even sounding remotely similar. Some quite long words seem to disappear completely and I can't pick out that I've even heard them. Does anyone know of any resources (websites, books) that have information on Spanish phonology (sound types) and how they change when spoken (preferrably in laymen's terms)? I had a read on Wiki about some of this and it was pretty interesting but a bit too technical for me. Does anyone have any personal experiences with this? I saw one person write how he tried to underpronounce his consonants and that helped his listening. Any other experiences/ideas? (I know that my listening will take more time to recover but I had problems with street level Spanish in the past. Cartoons, dubbed movies etc. are quite easy but some news reports and street level can kill me sometimes) Let me just clarify. This is about how Spoken Spanish changes, not necessarily Spanish Speed (there are plenty of debates on that already). I'm not that bad with speed (Spanish language hip-hops awesome). Edit; clarification Edited by crafedog on 14 October 2010 at 3:55pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6012 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 2 of 15 14 October 2010 at 1:54pm | IP Logged | ||
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When saying D, T, N or L, touch the base of your upper front teeth (the gumline) with the tip of your tongue. When a D comes between two vowels, be lazy and let it become TH (of "these")
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| Andy E Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 7104 days ago 1651 posts - 1939 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French | Message 3 of 15 14 October 2010 at 2:17pm | IP Logged | ||
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I used to listen to Democracy Now all the time as it was one of the few resources that offered transcripts with the audio. Some is going to come down to accent - i.e. where the speakers come from and apparently it's recorded in Uruguay (all I could remember is that it wasn't Mexico). A quick listen and the obvious ones are there** - softened 'D's and 'S's in word or syllable-final position.
The above was exactly what used to catch me out - multiple syllables seemed to merge into one. I began listening expecting super-clear speech like a language course. Interestly, if you compare DN with NHK Spanish News, the announcers in the latter speak a lot more clearly and slowly. The "slowly" bit brings me on to my next point. You say that you're not that bad with speed but what I used to do which was to slow (pitch-corrected is what you want) the audio down until I could pick out what I was listening to by following the transcript and then repeat the listening without the transcript (I used to do this with a small section at a time i.e. each one of the Titulares de Hoy). Then do the same, speeding up the audio until it was back at normal speed by the end. ** Edit: by that I mean this is common to Spanish not just to Uruguay. Edited by Andy E on 14 October 2010 at 2:20pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Andrew~ Groupie United States howlearnspanish.com Joined 5269 days ago 42 posts - 67 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Japanese | Message 4 of 15 18 October 2010 at 10:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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Keep in mind that this also varies a great deal with regards to the accent of the speaker as there's no universal "Spanish" accent.
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| getreallanguage Diglot Senior Member Argentina youtube.com/getreall Joined 5472 days ago 240 posts - 371 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: Italian, Dutch | Message 5 of 15 23 October 2010 at 4:45am | IP Logged | ||
You're right when it comes to T and D, as in, they should be dental (pronounced with the tongue against the back of the upper front teeth). Also when it comes to the D sound becoming a fricative between vowels (although a dental fricative, not an interdental one). I do take some exception to your description of N and L. The Spanish N is for all intents and purposes identical to the English N, as in, it's alveolar (pronounced with the tongue against the 'bump' on the palate directly behind the gumline), and can become dental when preceding dental consonants, and velar when preceding velar consonants. The L is also alveolar and can become dental when preceding dental consonants, just like in English. The difference with English L is that the Spanish L is never 'dark' (velarized). As Andrew said there is no such thing as 'one' Spanish accent. However, I can offer the following tip: the voiced stops (B, D and G sounds) become fricatives between vowels. Also, the voiceless stops (P, T and K sounds) might become voiced fricatives between vowels, so that they'll sound identical to the between-vowels voiced stops. Also, a soft pronunciation or outright deletion of word-final D is very common. For more information you can check out my youtube channel which is linked under my username. I have a few videos up on Spanish phonology/phonetics. I do get a bit technical with my terminology on occasion, but if you need it in layman's terms, please don't hesitate to let me know and I'll obligue. Hope this helped. Edited by getreallanguage on 23 October 2010 at 4:47am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| crafedog Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5819 days ago 166 posts - 337 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Korean, Tok Pisin, French | Message 6 of 15 26 October 2010 at 3:17am | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks for the detailed information getreal but I have to admit it was a bit out of my
league (probably only understood about 50% of it). Would you mind dumbing it down/putting it in layman's terms for me a bit more? Thanks again 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| getreallanguage Diglot Senior Member Argentina youtube.com/getreall Joined 5472 days ago 240 posts - 371 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: Italian, Dutch | Message 7 of 15 26 October 2010 at 6:00am | IP Logged | ||
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Hey crafedog, your original post seems to be about two different things: improving your listening of 'naturally spoken Spanish' and improving your pronunciation.
As far as improving your listening there is no substitute for keeping at it and piling up the hours of exposure to the spoken language. Also, as your proficiency in the language gets better, your brain will start to 'fill in the gaps' when you come across a new accent, and you're hearing words you know, but with changed or dropped sounds. After you reach a certain level of proficiency it will take you a shorter time to get used to a so-far unfamiliar accent or the peculiarities of a certain individual speaker. You have to also take into account that Spanish is an international language with many different accents which vary quite a bit. In that regard it's not that different from what happens with English. One tip I can give you when it comes to working on listening comprehension is to, when dealing with video content, get rid of subtitles in your own language as soon as you can possibly manage it. If you feel like you need subtitles, use Spanish subtitles. Eventually, retire them altogether. 'Blind listening' is a skill that can only be mastered by doing it repeteadly over a long period of time. My students, as well as me when I study my languages, usually start noticing improvement in listening comprehension after a couple months, more after six months, more after a year, etc. As far as improving your pronunciation, this comes with listening to native speakers (a lot) and trying to imitate their speech (a lot) over a long period of time (are you starting to see a pattern? If my experience learning English is any indication, getting to sound close to a native is possible but takes a long time). Ok, some tips regarding Spanish phonology, which may help you with pronouncing, and might point you in the right direction when listening. I'll focus on certain consonant sounds. As you requested, I'll try to stay away from technical terminology. As a basis for comparison, I'll use English. - The sounds corresponding to the letters M and N are identical to English. - The sounds corresponding to the letter K in KILO, C in CASA, and G in GATO, GUITA (Argentinian slang for 'money') are identical to English, with the caveats that I'll go into shortly. Same for the sound of P. - Sounds corresponding to the letters T and D: in English these sounds are pronounced with the tip of the tongue against what's called the 'alveolar ridge'. That's the little bump on your hard palate directly behind the gumline of your upper front teeth. Try saying (in English) 'tick tick tick' or 'dun dun dun'. You'll notice where your tongue touches the palate when you say them. In Spanish these sounds are pronounced with the tip of your tongue against the back of the upper teeth. Your tongue should be touching the back of the teeth and the gumline. If you've ever noticed the difference in the sound of English and Spanish T and D, this is part of the reason. - When a D is between two vowels the pronunciation will be 'weakened' and it will sound, well, weaker. Try saying the word 'addition'. The D sounds very clear and distinct. In Spanish the D between vowels will sound weaker. It will probably sound to your ear more like the TH in 'father' than like the DD in 'addition'. - D at the end of a word might either sound very weak, not be pronounced at all, or, more rarely, sound like a T; so that VERDAD can sound like VERDÁ or sometimes VERDAT. Also, in some Spaniard accents (Madrid comes to mind) it will sound like the TH in THINK. - Between vowels, the sound of G will also sound 'weaker'. - The sound of B (_or_ V) can either be like the English B in 'bite' or 'weaker', something that will maybe sound to you like a 'very lazily pronounced English B' or, maybe, more like an English V. This is particularly true when the sound is between vowels. - Finally, in Spanish spoken "quickly" and without too much regard for enunciation (which is to say, very colloquially), the sounds of T, K and P between vowels will sound more like the 'weak' versions of D, G and B, respectively. So that something like PETISA will sound like PEDISA; etcetera. - The sounds of the letters F as well as the letter combination CH sound just like in English FIRE and CHANGE. The letter H is never pronounced. I realize I'm getting really basic here but I honestly don't know how much detail you're looking for and what's your real proficiency level. Either way, getting on with it... - The sound of the letter L (but of course, not the combination LL) is similar to English L except it sounds, and is pronounced, a bit different. I really couldn't explain the difference without going into technical terminology or being very lengthy. If you want more details, let me know. - As you probably know already, there are two R sounds in Spanish. If you need any tips in this regard, let me know. The R at the end of a word can sometimes get dropped. - The way Y and LL are pronounced is subject to a _lot_ of dialect variation. Think of the many different ways to pronounce an R in the English speaking world. Some dialects have two different sounds, one for Y, one for LL. Others have only one for both of them. What these sounds are, specifically, varies according to region and other factors like the age of the speaker. This is just one of those you're gonna have to just get used to. - Last but not least: the pronunciation of S (or S, C and Z, as most dialects outside Central/Northern Spain have only one sound for all of them). There are different ways to pronounce this sound. You'll notice right away the difference between say, Madrid S and Mexico S, for example. Here's the important thing, though. In many dialects of Spanish, this S is sometimes 'aspirated' (it will sound like the H in English HOT, except perhaps less strong) in certain positions, like for example before certain consonants (like in the word ESPERAR, for example; it will sound more like EHPERAR). It might also be dropped altogether in certain positions, for example at the end of a word. It has to do with accent and dialect variation. As you can see, some of these pronunciations have to do with dialect/accent, and some with informality, colloquial speaking, and the situation. I'm sure that with enough exposure to the content your brain will start making the connections between the words in your brain and what your ears hear out of different speakers in different situations. I hope this lenghty post helped. If you have any questions, feel free to ask them. Edited by getreallanguage on 26 October 2010 at 6:14am 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5227 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 8 of 15 26 October 2010 at 6:14am | IP Logged | ||
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Your main concern when speaking Spanish should be vowels, in the sense that English vowels are totally alien to Spanish speakers while consonants are mostly OK, even if a bit off in some cases (like D and T as remarked).
I mean, your consonants may sound a bit exaggerated and that will result in a slightly funny accent 90% of the time and people not understanding you 10% of the time (I just made up the numbers but you get the idea), while with vowels it's the other way round. Spanish is pretty much phonetic, so since there are five vowel letters, there are five vowel sounds which are quite different, always single and all the same length, but it seems you already know that. WRT to 'sound changes': in correct Spanish there is no such thing. If something you hear differs noticeably from its written form or from how you heard it in the news, like the latter half of every word being dropped, it's simply bad "pronunciation" (more like lack thereof), so simply get used to it, pay it no heed, and for God's sake, don't try to imitate it. :) As an aside note, if you watch Latin American programs with subtitles, or something like that, be aware that the 'seseo' is tremendously common in most Latin America; i.e. the syllables 'za', 'ce', 'ci', zo' and 'zu' are pronounced with an 's' instead of the right /th/ (as in 'think') sound. The opposite phenomenon (ceceo), people pronouncing many 's's as 'th', is frequent in the south of Spain and lots of other regions. Proper Spanish has 'th' and 's' sounds and the spelling should be easy enough for any respectful speaker (including a lot of natives) to get it right with little to no effort. 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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