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Which world language? | ||
Tags: Lingua franca | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| BiaHuda Triglot Groupie Vietnam Joined 5364 days ago 97 posts - 127 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, Vietnamese Studies: Cantonese | Message 25 of 38 20 October 2010 at 11:53pm | IP Logged | |||||
Very gơod point about MSA. I wish I could give more insight but I don't know much Arabic aside from a few touristy type words. I worked in Doha Qatar for awhile and there was alot of Egyptian TV programming. I also recall a television show that was in English, that was an MSA language show (very interesting). The Arab speaking world is vast and I recall seeing Arabic script in Brunai and Malaysia, in this respect MSA Arabic would come very close to English as a Lingua Franca for crossing cultural, diplomatic and geographical boundaries (oceans, mountains etc.). I would be interested in knowing if MSA is understood in Iran. I briefly worked there also and really loved the people and history. Rather unfortunate political situation there at the mo so I didn't dare broach the subject. Aside from that, I would think that MSA would qualify as a true lingua franca. Moreso than Mandarin just because of the large number of countries that can use it. I tơơ would be interested in hearing more from forum members. I know their are a gơod number of Arabic speakers here.. Edited by BiaHuda on 20 October 2010 at 11:55pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| nebojats Triglot Groupie United States Joined 5197 days ago 89 posts - 120 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Thai Studies: French, Arabic (Written), Mandarin, Italian | Message 26 of 38 21 October 2010 at 5:03am | IP Logged | |||||
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@Gray:
I have no firsthand experience, but I have been trying to answer that exact question for some time now, as I hope my next language to study will be Arabic. As far as I understand, MSA is primarily used in academics, politics, and news. Most people across the Arab world can listen and understand (especially if decently educated), but would struggle to speak purely MSA. Every time I have asked whether you could get by with just MSA, everyone tells me that learning a local dialect is a must. So, in a sense, MSA really is a purely international lingua franca... it allows you to converse with educated folks, read news, listen to politicians, and enjoy academic pursuits in approximately 20 countries. On the other hand, it won't be enough to immerse yourself in any particular country. The best comparison I've heard (although, I have no experience with German, so I can't verify this) is that MSA is like Standard German. Within Germany, supposedly, local dialects can be mutually unintelligible. People will speak these local dialects at home, but whenever speaking in a formal or national setting, people will pull out the Standard German. Can anyone verify this? Edited by nebojats on 21 October 2010 at 5:04am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Hardheim Diglot Newbie United States Joined 5200 days ago 34 posts - 78 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Spanish, French | Message 27 of 38 21 October 2010 at 5:24am | IP Logged | |||||
True about German. I grew up in Hardheim, and the dialect there isn't too bad. But, for me the Bavarian dialect goes right over my head. I know this is the case for many native Germans. Also, it took me about 3 months to even start to get the gist of Swiss German while I lived there. In my mind, they are really different languages in the same sense that Spanish, Portuguese and Italian are different languages. The fact that everyone can communicate in standard German, and that these divergent dialects are all in the same country is the reason they aren't considered different languages. Edited by Hardheim on 21 October 2010 at 5:28am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Old Chemist Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5174 days ago 227 posts - 285 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German | Message 28 of 38 21 October 2010 at 1:29pm | IP Logged | |||||
This is a problem for learners of German, like me, even intermediate/advanced courses such as Assimil's Perfectionment have characters puzzled and irritated by the number of German "dialects" The one Assimil has complains that she can only understand "Bahnhof" and is told the language is "etwas anders" in Swabia. This probably will make it difficult for German ever to be considered a world language. It is in a similar position to Italian - a lot of "dialects," the standard used for official and formal purposes, but intelligible to most speakers. Probably if I were choosing a language for maximum power of communication, I would go for some of the major ones already mentioned: Spanish, French, Russian, Mandarin (pace, Ari - I mean the internationally recognised standard, not the dialects), English... it might be nice to become fluent in it some day... 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| noriyuki_nomura Bilingual Octoglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 5341 days ago 304 posts - 465 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin*, Japanese, FrenchC2, GermanC2, ItalianC1, SpanishB2, DutchB1 Studies: TurkishA1, Korean | Message 29 of 38 24 October 2010 at 5:07pm | IP Logged | |||||
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In today's Tages Anzeiger, a German newspapers in Zurich, an interview with Jean Ziegler (a renowned sociologist professor with the Uni of Geneva and Uni of Sorbonne) was published regarding his opinion on French language, titled: the French language dropping into the hole (die franzosische Sprache geht das Loch ab). As the interview was in German, I have translated two paragraphs, which I thought were interesting (please pardon me if I did not translate them well). Note that this interview was done while the 8th Summit of the International Organisation of Francophonie (OIF) was held in Montreux, Switzerland on 22. October 2010.
Journalist: Where does the problem lie? Jean Ziegler: There is an incredible ethnocentrism that is prevailing in France. That is why they in Paris have not realized that one must do something if he/she wants to assert himself/herself. The consequence is that the English language rules the world - not the great language of Shakespeare, but rather that of a miserable, primitive Yankee American. Journalist: Hence, Paris is itself guilty? Jean Ziegler: Absolutely yes. There is the (OIF), International Organisation of the Francophonie, which is holding its summit in Montreux now. The organisation would be strong enough to bring forth the values of the French culture to the world, however, the OIF has become the 'command receiver/subordinate' of French foreign affairs. That is no wonder: most of the OIF members are from Africa and they are economically dependent on Paris. No one will fight against the rule of the OIF. And the non-africans will not do anything either: the Belgiums are occupied with themselves, Quebec in Canada lacks the strength, and Haiti has other worries. That leaves us with Switzerland. But she too has done nothing. http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/standard/Die-franzoesisc he-Sprache-geht-das-Loch-ab-/story/13728114 Edited by noriyuki_nomura on 24 October 2010 at 5:42pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| fireflies Senior Member Joined 5182 days ago 172 posts - 234 votes Speaks: English* | Message 30 of 38 24 October 2010 at 5:40pm | IP Logged | |||||
Heh no one speaks Shakespeare's English anymore. Dickens would be a more suitable writer to mention. French is welcome to become the new global language as far as I am concerned. I hope they have fun! Edited by fireflies on 24 October 2010 at 7:29pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| plaidchuck Diglot Groupie United States facebook.com/plaidchRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5306 days ago 71 posts - 93 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish | Message 31 of 38 24 October 2010 at 7:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
Just was browsing and saw this topic so I had to share: Have you guys heard the hyoptheses that the English of Shakespeare's time may have been closer to sounding like current North American English? Just a tidbit from about.com: http://shakespeare.about.com/b/2009/10/13/americans-can-do-s hakespeare.htm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| L1539 Diglot Newbie United States Joined 5359 days ago 27 posts - 55 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish | Message 32 of 38 25 October 2010 at 5:23pm | IP Logged | |||||
While all of this is true, there are also important differences between MSA and Standard German. In many parts of Germany today (particularly in the north), Standard German (or something so close as to be easily intelligible to speakers of Standard German) is the native language of most people. MSA, on the other hand, is not the native language of any Arab. Furthermore, if you know Standard German you can talk to almost anyone in Germany. This is not necessarily true with MSA in the Arab world. Many Arabs can't comfortably speak it, and even if they can, do not want to do so because it sounds much too formal and awkward in everyday life. Someone who knows only MSA is likely to have serious communication problems when speaking with many Arabs. This is not the case with Standard German in Germany. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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