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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5431 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes  Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 1 of 3 23 October 2010 at 2:18pm | IP Logged |
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The other day I was reading a scam email and remarked that I could tell after one line that the author was not a native speaker (writer) of English. There was nothing wrong with the grammar, but the whole thing didn't sound right. Here is an excerpt:
"I so much appreciate your response to my earlier mail. I wish to let you know that I'm satisfied with the condition. Like I said there's no doubt I'm gonna purchase it." This little episode made me think how difficult it is to sound natural in a second language. I'm not referring here to accent or pronunciation. I'm thinking more of how to master the skill of putting all the elements together in a way that flows naturally. This is what I call speaking IN the language rather than speaking the language. Some people call this "thinking" in the language, but this is somewhat controversial. We're in the area of the CEFR C1 or C2 where we have all the grammar and the vocabulary down pat. Something seems missing, however. I know this raises that hoary question native-like proficiency, but without necessarily opening that can of worms, I think there is room for debate or thinking about what it takes to push our level of proficiency over the top. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| fireflies Senior Member Joined 5182 days ago 172 posts - 234 votes Speaks: English* | Message 2 of 3 23 October 2010 at 3:58pm | IP Logged |
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If the speaker lives in the country that speaks the language for a long time then they usually end up sounding natural. Those scam emails are so weird and would probably sound odd even in perfect grammar. Edited by fireflies on 23 October 2010 at 4:05pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Old Chemist Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5174 days ago 227 posts - 285 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German | Message 3 of 3 24 October 2010 at 10:03am | IP Logged |
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Any book or course will be subtlely out of date, I agree with you, fireflies, only by totally immersing yourself in a foreign country for years could you end up sounding completely natural and fool anyone. This perhaps appears to go against what I have said elsewhere on the forum, but it's one thing to be perfectly at ease in almost all situations and sound a native speaker and quite another when you are trying to appear to be a native as with the scam email. Sometimes, I think, it's the correctness that gives a non-native speaker and the reason why you need to "hang out" with the natives for a long time. What we learn tends to err on the more formal modes of expression in out target language as most of the time "'ere mate whatcha doin' tonite?" sort of speech would sound very odd without an absolutely perfect performance. I knew a very irritating non-native speaker of English who used to try to affect this way of speaking and it was always "off" and he swore far too much in inappropriate places and - when with the right people - at the wrong time. I wqould love to be perfect at all times, but I feel I would have to unlearn a lot of the formal stuff to be able to speak the languages I know more colloquially and it would be almost impossible to know the right time and place to speak that way.
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