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| elvisrules Tetraglot Senior Member BelgiumRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5470 days ago 286 posts - 390 votes  Speaks: French, English*, Dutch, Flemish Studies: Lowland Scots, Japanese, German | Message 25 of 41 06 March 2010 at 12:12pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Have you read the entire thread Virginian?
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| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6012 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 26 of 41 06 March 2010 at 1:52pm | IP Logged | |||||
Yay. Although that leaves me having to decide whether I speak it natively or not. It was fairly diluted in my part of Scotland. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| davidwelsh Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5530 days ago 141 posts - 307 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, Norwegian, Esperanto, Swedish, Danish, French Studies: Polish, Sanskrit, Tibetan, Pali, Mandarin | Message 27 of 41 07 March 2010 at 4:31pm | IP Logged | |||||
Yes, me too:) I decided to put it as my secondary native language but only at Basic Fluency... 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| davidwelsh Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5530 days ago 141 posts - 307 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, Norwegian, Esperanto, Swedish, Danish, French Studies: Polish, Sanskrit, Tibetan, Pali, Mandarin | Message 28 of 41 07 March 2010 at 5:00pm | IP Logged | |||||
Scots does not differ from English only in terms of orthography. There are significant differences in phonology, lexis and grammar. Scottish Gaelic was never the language of the whole of Scotland, only of the northern part. Even at its height it was only spoken as a first or second language by about 50% of Scots. And whilst we can certainly have an amicable disagreement about how to classify the languages and dialects of Scotland, ascribing motives such as laziness to those with whom you do not agree is unlikely to make for a civil and productive debate. Just because you can read and understand Scots doesn't mean it's not a language. Plenty of languages are mutually comprehensible to some degree. And if you've really never had a problem understanding Scots, I wonder just how much of the language you've been exposed to. Take this sonnet by Cecco Angiolieri for example, translated into Scots from Italian by J. Derrick McClure and published in the Scots literary journal "Lallans": Oh, sic a wecht o dule an pyne I dree, I'm like tae trou ma deidliest mortal fae, Gin aa my blaik mishanters he coud se Wid hae tae greet for ruein on my wae. An her at gaw an wormit gars me pree: She disna care a docken or a strae! The sain tae aa my pynes belyve she'd gie Gin e'en "I canna thole ye!" she wad say. But hate, nae mair nor luve, she winna awn, Nae joy, nae dule o mine wad gar her sizzie, It's aa the same, whitever weird I'm faa'n, Gin I hae guid or ill, she's jist jeck-aisy; She thinks I'm stuir about her feeties blawn - My curse on Luve, at's thirl't me tae then hizzie! or these verses from the famous poem "To A Mouse" by Robert Burns: Wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beestie, O what a panic's in thy breastie! Thou need na start awa sae hasty, Wi' bickering brattle! I wid be laith tae rin an chase thee, Wi murdering pattle! ... I doubt na whyles, but thou may thieve; What then? poor beastie, thou maun live! A daimen-icker in a thrave 'S a sma' request: I'll get a blessin wi' the lave, An' never miss't! I really doubt that anyone would be able to properly understand these texts solely on the basis of their knowledge of standard English. Even I, as a speaker of Scottish English, would have to get out my Scots-English dictionary to understand these poems properly. Whether that makes Scots an language rather than a dialect is of course another discussion. Edited by davidwelsh on 07 March 2010 at 5:01pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| davidwelsh Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5530 days ago 141 posts - 307 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, Norwegian, Esperanto, Swedish, Danish, French Studies: Polish, Sanskrit, Tibetan, Pali, Mandarin | Message 29 of 41 07 March 2010 at 5:10pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I think it's important to acknowledge the political overtones of a discussion as to whether Scots is a language or a dialect, particularly for those who might read this thread not knowing much about the political situation in Scotland.
There has been a serious debate in Scotland for some time now as to whether Scotland should remain in a union with England, Wales and Northern Ireland, or become an independent state. A significant number of Scots support independence, as does the Scottish Government (although supporters of independence do not constitute a majority in the Scottish Parliament - only 50 members out of 129 support full independence.) The fact is that supporters of Scots as a language tend (as a general trend, and not of course exclusively) to be supporters of Scottish independence. Seeing Scots as a separate language from English strengthens the justification for Scotland being an independent state. Those who view Scots as a dialect of English tend (as a general trend, and not of course exclusively) to be supporters of the British union. Seeing Scots as a dialect of English strengthens the justification for Scotland being in a union with England. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Teango Triglot Winner TAC 2010 & 2012 Senior Member United States teango.wordpress.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5557 days ago 2210 posts - 3734 votes Speaks: English*, German, Russian Studies: Hawaiian, French, Toki Pona | Message 30 of 41 10 March 2010 at 10:36am | IP Logged | |||||
I agree with you that it's none too easy, but I find that I still understand a really good gist of it all. Rab C. Nesbitt used to be one of my favourite TV comedies, and I'm not sure how much Scots was used, but unlike the rest of my family who couldn't fathom a single word and detested the series, I could understand pretty much everything and would roll about the floor in fits of laughter with the jokes. Great stuff, happy days! Perhaps it's just my Hiberno-English roots and musical ear, I don't know ;) Nice links by the way. I rarely ever get to hear Scots outside Hogmanay and Burn's Night these days. You wouldn't happen to know of any other good audio links too, I love the way Scots sounds. Edited by Teango on 10 March 2010 at 10:41am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Teango Triglot Winner TAC 2010 & 2012 Senior Member United States teango.wordpress.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5557 days ago 2210 posts - 3734 votes Speaks: English*, German, Russian Studies: Hawaiian, French, Toki Pona | Message 31 of 41 10 March 2010 at 10:56am | IP Logged | |||||
It would be cool to have this added as a new tag in the list too. Edited by Teango on 10 March 2010 at 11:01am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| elvisrules Tetraglot Senior Member BelgiumRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5470 days ago 286 posts - 390 votes Speaks: French, English*, Dutch, Flemish Studies: Lowland Scots, Japanese, German | Message 32 of 41 10 March 2010 at 11:36am | IP Logged | |||||
I'm sorry but I don't think that's true. Do you have any statistics to support this? 1 person has voted this message useful |
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