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German vs. French | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| languagefreak Diglot Groupie United States Joined 5248 days ago 51 posts - 52 votes  Speaks: Russian, English* Studies: German | Message 1 of 19 04 October 2010 at 11:59pm | IP Logged | ||
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How would you guys rank the difficulty for an English speaker to learn German vs. French? The grammar of french is
much simpler than German I think. And, I have studied Spanish in the past, and if french is similar then it is pretty simple. On the other hand, the little German that I did was somewhat harder than Spanish. So, usually, do people consider German harder than french? How long does it take an average person to become fluent in both? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5208 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 2 of 19 05 October 2010 at 12:50am | IP Logged | ||
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Disclaimer: I don't know much German; I've had a brief read of a grammar book and some exposure from being in Germany and knowing Germans, whereas I know quite a lot more about French.
Seems like six or half a dozen really. They both have their complications. For example French pronunciation is more difficult for a native English speaker, but German grammar is more complicated because of noun declensions etc.. Similarly for vocab, English has Germanic roots but has a lot of words of French origin, so in either language you'll find a lot of similar words and a lot of completely different ones. If you're trying to decide which to learn then there's more important factors than difficulty. Which do you prefer, which would be more useful to you? Knowing French will make learning other Romance languages much easier, whereas German will prepare you well for other Germanic and Scandinavian languages, and any languages with cases (Russian, Greek, etc.). Personally I want to learn both, as do a lot of aspiring polyglots; I'm just doing French first because I already know some from school and it's useful for me since I travel to France relatively often. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| TerryW Senior Member United States Joined 6358 days ago 370 posts - 783 votes Speaks: English* | Message 3 of 19 05 October 2010 at 1:41am | IP Logged | ||
A lot of the regulars on this board are probably laughing at that question, because 1. People are always asking how long it will take to get fluent in language X. 2. There are constant discussions about just what constitutes "fluent," including some threads going on right now. 3. The answer depends on how many hours you would study a day, what methods you will use, how intensely or effectively you would study, how motivated you will be throughout, etc. I'm not much beyond "beginner" in a lot of languages, but maybe some who have done it will come around and tell you how long it took them. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Old Chemist Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5174 days ago 227 posts - 285 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German | Message 4 of 19 05 October 2010 at 8:33am | IP Logged | ||
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I agree - it does sound like "How long is a piece of string?" to me. I have learnt both, but like you, TerryW, I can't claim fluency in either, although my French is better. As I have said elsewhere, I think the French expect a higher standard of fluency than others: if you can't get across what you are trying to say, they either switch to English or make less than positive remarks. I even had an (English) French teacher who said she had encountered a degree of xenophobia on her visits there. I suppose this might be directed especially at the English, as we have had many hundreds of years of conflict with them!
To (try to!) keep to the point, both languages have difficulties, it's necessary to practise more to get close to the sounds of the nasal vowels, otherwise you are likely to have severe communication difficulties even with friendly-disposed natives. There are a lot of words which are very close to their English equivalents and many faux amis, ones that look like an English word, but mean something completely different.The higher you go, the easier the vocabulary becomes - there is an almost 1:1 correspondence, as both languages borrow heavily from Greek and Latin to express complicated or technical things. German has a basic vocabulary that is easy to acquire because of the similarities between the two languages. The more technical vocabulary is very different and depends on learning how German constructs complex words from its basic vocabulary, leading to the "sesguipedalian" words which people are supposed to be so frightened of. I think a way of getting round the grammar, which I found tedious, is to get access to good language coureses and learn some of it verbatim; that way the grammar gets "internalized" naturally. Edited by Old Chemist on 05 October 2010 at 8:35am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| cmj Octoglot Groupie Switzerland Joined 5339 days ago 58 posts - 191 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Ancient Greek, French, Arabic (classical), Latin, Italian | Message 5 of 19 05 October 2010 at 9:49am | IP Logged | ||
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I think Old Chemist is on the right track. It's not entirely true that French grammar is easier than German grammar. Although German does have cases, as far as case systems go it is quite straightforward. Once you get the logic of the system it is easy enough to use with few major mistakes. French on the other hand has an extremely complicated verbal system, which is a great deal more difficult to master than in German.
Moreover, while both languages have a gender system, the gender of the German word only really affects adjectives directly attached to the noun, French requires a much more comprehensive concordance of adjectives, pronouns, and verbal participles throughout the sentence. Add to that the complexities of French pronunciation (which is a big hurdle for many English speakers) and orthography (it is VERY important to write French correctly) as well as the high standards of the French themselves with respect to foreign learners, and the picture becomes somewhat less clear. I think that what really pushes German ahead of French in difficulty (although not necessarily by a huge distance) is its vocabulary. There are fewer shared words between German and English and the active vocabulary of German is larger than in French (source: discussions with my bilingual Swiss friends, admittedly unscientific, and a study quoted by the Duden Sprachberatung Podcast). Like in English, there are large numbers of synonyms that are distinguished by only slight nuances. While the system of creating compound words means that it is often easy to guess the meaning of new terms when you encounter them, there is a very large number of them and they must still be learned by heart for active use, since you can't just invent words to convey your intended meaning. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Old Chemist Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5174 days ago 227 posts - 285 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German | Message 6 of 19 05 October 2010 at 1:33pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks cmj, an impressive linguistic CV you have there! I think, as I have said before, elsewhere, probably the most important thing is to get on and learn the language. I have been guilty of getting together an awful lot of material on learning languages, started then had huge gaps. I also think it is very easy to make "the perfect the enemy of the good," to spend a great deal of time going over introductory stuff, which can be off-putting and boring. That being said, it is essential to learn the basics as you are more likely to be asked to move out of the way than your opinion on the Michelson-Morley Experiment!
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| tracker465 Senior Member United States Joined 5353 days ago 355 posts - 496 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 7 of 19 05 October 2010 at 10:57pm | IP Logged | ||
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I agree with a lot of cmj's post. I had no real difficulty with the German case system, sure I make mistakes here and there, but my writing is not terrible either. With German the verbal system is quite easy, and the biggest difficulty is vocabulary. The further an English speaker goes in German vocabulary, the harder it becomes, as English takes its more technical and abstract vocabulary from French, Latin and Greek.
On the other hand, French verbs can be really tricky. The tense system is a lot more difficult than that of German, but on the other hand, one receives tons of cognates for abstract words, which makes it easier to acquire a sufficient vocabulary. I personally chose German to study, and only want to study French sometime way down the line. I think both, as with most languages, have their easy aspects and their pitfalls. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| zekecoma Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5345 days ago 561 posts - 655 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish | Message 8 of 19 06 October 2010 at 2:04am | IP Logged | ||
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I don't really see the difficulty in German like others even though I am still a very
beginner. The only thing really messes me up in German is the subordinance, the lack of vocabulary and determining which of the many synonyms to use. French from what I have attempted to learn. The problem I have with French is the pronunciation. It is very hard and complex. The accents are a little difficult but shouldn't be that hard. I would suggest going with German first then learn French. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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