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A few questions on Italian phonology | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Kubelek Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland chomikuj.pl/Kuba_wal Joined 6853 days ago 415 posts - 528 votes  Speaks: Polish*, EnglishC2, French, Spanish Studies: German | Message 1 of 5 05 October 2010 at 2:57am | IP Logged | ||
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Hello, I have a few questions on sounds of Italian that wikipedia couldn't shed enough
light on. - Is 'l' and 'll' dental or alveolar? Perhaps it depends on the word? I didn't pay attention to it while starting out French and I'm having a lot of troubles pronouncing the dental 'l' without paying attention. In fact the English wiki page has a mysterious column "dental/alveolar" for n, t, d, ts and dz affricates, s, z, l. Does it mean that the use varies? The Italian wiki lists them as: n - alveolar t,d - dental ts, dz - ? s, z - dental - ʤ giungla, fingere, pagina - wikipedia lists is as post-alveolar affricate, yet an Italian friend of mine swore that it's always dental. Was it his particular dialect (he's from Torino) that he tried to impose on all Italians? Thanks in advance if you have any ideas. I have compared several online and printed resources on the phonology of all the languages I've studied and I've noticed many discrepancies (while English wiki articles on phonology didn't agree with most of remaining sources). Any websites or books recommendations? I've tried strictly academic resources with French and while they're fun to read they do not contain any drills and almost every rule is followed by an ominous looking sentence - "use varies regionally". That wasn't very practical. Do you know of any user friendly and good quality materials? 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Old Chemist Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5174 days ago 227 posts - 285 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German | Message 2 of 5 05 October 2010 at 8:15am | IP Logged | ||
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I am not a native speaker of Italian, but I was taught to pronounce each sound clearly and not to make the "dark l" sound, which we have in English - I was told to put the tongue against the back of the front teeth and pronounce l. I personally try to avoid descriptions and classifications of languages. I think this often just slows you down.
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| Emme Triglot Senior Member Italy Joined 5348 days ago 980 posts - 1594 votes Speaks: Italian*, English, German Studies: Russian, Swedish, French | Message 3 of 5 05 October 2010 at 2:36pm | IP Logged | ||
Phonology is a rather specialised field, so unless your Italian friend specifically studied it (usually at university level) he’s probably just basing his statements on his own impressions. And yes, most phonemes are pronounced slightly differently from region to region. That’s why, when someone wants to become an actor, or to work in television or radio, he/she generally has to study ‘dizione’ so that the normal but somewhat ‘off’ pronunciation (compared to standard ‘actorly’ pronunciation) can be eliminated. I can’t suggest any title, but maybe a good ‘dizione’ course / textbook (better if with CDs) targeted to native speakers could be a good resource if you are really interested in Italian sounds. For what it’s worth, Dardano/Trifone, Grammatica Italiana con nozioni di linguistica, Zanichelli, 1983, pp. 405-406 gives these definitions (note the use of 'obstruent spirant' for 'ficative' and the use of 'oral' vs 'nasal' to describe the soft palate movement): /p/: plosive bilabial unvoiced /b/: plosive bilabial voiced oral /m/: plosive bilabial voiced nasal /t/: plosive dental unvoiced /d/: plosive dental voiced oral /n/: plosive dental voiced nasal /ɲ/: plosive nasal palatal /k/: plosive velar unvoiced /g/: plosive velar voiced /ts/: affricate alveolar unvoiced /dz/: affricate alveolar voiced /tʃ/: affricate prepalatal unvoiced /dʒ/: affricate prepalatal voiced /f/: obstruent spirant labiodental unvoiced /v/: obstruent spirant labiodental voiced /s/: obstruent spirant alveolar unvoiced /z/: obstruent spirant alveolar voiced /ʃ/: obstruent prepalatal unvoiced /r/: obstruent alveolar trill /l/: obstruent alveolar lateral /ʎ/: obstruent palatal lateral I hope this helps! Edited for spelling. Edited by Emme on 05 October 2010 at 8:48pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Kubelek Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland chomikuj.pl/Kuba_wal Joined 6853 days ago 415 posts - 528 votes Speaks: Polish*, EnglishC2, French, Spanish Studies: German | Message 4 of 5 05 October 2010 at 6:53pm | IP Logged | ||
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This is what I was looking for, thank you for taking your time to reply.
Old Chemist: did you mean phonological descriptions? I tend to disagree. If you pay attention to points of articulation when you first start speaking they become automatic and stop being a problem very soon. Consonants are not as hard to 'master' as vowels, in my experience. This helps your accent be a little less obtrusive (it is an opinion of someone who doesn't find foreign accents endearing, though). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6440 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 5 of 5 05 October 2010 at 9:18pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thank you, Emme.
Does anyone have similar information for regional pronunciations, especially those of Switzerland? 1 person has voted this message useful |
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