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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| SII Senior Member Russian FederationRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5796 days ago 184 posts - 194 votes  Speaks: Russian* Studies: English | Message 121 of 248 14 March 2009 at 2:40pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Brian_N
It is possible, using some word depends on geographic region. For example, USA English and GB English are not fully identical.
As neutral we use word "негр". "Nigger" is "ниггер", this version use our racists -- of course, these people are in any nation. The sounding of these versions is different.
We know very well about this reason. We laugh and denounce (condemn?) "Western political correctness" by other reason: such behaviour is like hypocrisy (dissimulation?). It is need to train the real respect to people with another colour of skin, religion etc, but not only to call they with the politically correct (?) words. Of course, I don't say this relative to you or anybody else, I say about the principe of outward (surface, visual?) politically correct behavior without the deep changes of attitude to another people. In USSR a long time we heard very many various good but lying slogans like "Всё для блага человека" (All must do for the people's welfare) or "Народ и партия едины" (Common people and the party (communist, of course) are single (united?)) -- but at the same time only select few had these welfare. We had a joke: "Граница между социализмом и коммунизмом проходит по кремлёвской стене" (The border between socialism and communism is passing by the Kremlin's fortified wall). Probably, because a long time we lived in such lie, we think very negative about political correctness.
This is right. A person must to know and to respect rules accepted in another country/nation if the person have deal with the nation. Therefore (so?) if in Russian text you will write "афро-американец", I will correct it to "негр" because in Russia is right just this word. Edited by SII on 14 March 2009 at 2:47pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
 Brian_N Pro Member Canada Joined 5769 days ago 200 posts - 202 votes Studies: English*, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 122 of 248 15 March 2009 at 5:08am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
(It’s) possible, (*1) some (words) (are) (dependent) on geographic region*1). (For example, (USA*2) English and GB English are not fully identical.*3) As (a) neutral (word) we use () "негр". "Nigger" is "ниггер", this version (is) (used) (by) our racists -- of course, these people are in (every) nation. The sounding of these versions is different. We know very well about this reason. ((We laugh and () (condemn?*4) western political correctness*5) (for) other reason: such behavior is like hypocrisy (dissimulation?*6). (What) is (needed) (is) ((to train*7) () real respect (to*8) people with another color of skin, religion etc,) (but*9) not only to call (them) with the politically correct (?*10) words. Of course, I don't say this relative to you or anybody else, I say (this) about the principal of () (surface, visual?*11) (politically correct behavior without the deep changes of attitude*12) to (different) people. In (the) USSR (for) a long time we heard very many various good but lying slogans like "Всё для блага человека" (All must do for the people's welfare) or "Народ и партия едины" (Common people and the party (communist, of course) are single (united?*13)) -- but at the same time only (a) select few had these (welfares.) We had a joke: "Граница между социализмом и коммунизмом проходит по кремлёвской стене" (The border between socialism and communism is (marked) by the Kremlin's fortified wall). Probably, because (of) (the) long time we lived in such (a) lie, we think very (negatively) about political correctness. This is right. A person must () know and () respect the rules accepted in another country/nation if (that) person (is) (to) have (dealings) with (that) nation. Therefore (so?) if in Russian text you will write "афро-американец", I will correct it to "негр" because in Russia "негр" is (the) right word. *1 - "using" is not necessary here because this sentence is a response to my paragraph where I talked about word usage. *2 - it is permissible to refer to the USA as "the United States" or "the US" *3- In this sentence you would replace USA with American and GB with British – (For example, American English and British English are not fully identical.) *4- Yes, (condemn) is the word you looking for here. *5- (we laugh) and (condemn) don't mix well in the same sentence. Try - (We condemn western political correctness), it is a stronger statement, (we condemn) is used in criminal sentencing as well as executions/death penalty *6-No, stay with (hypocrisy) *7-go with (to teach) here, (to train) brings up ideas of people preparing for future tasks. *8-(to teach real respect (to) people with another color of skin, religion etc,) - means you’re going to teach people of color and different religions how to show real respect -(to teach real respect (towards) people with another color of skin, religion, etc) -means you’re going to teach people to be respectful of other skin colors, religions, etc *9-(but) would not be used here, some examples.... -I wanted to go to work (but) I missed the bus. -We made it in 5 minutes (but) it still wasn't fast enough -I wanted to go swimming (but) it's too cold -We tried to sleep (but) it was too noisy. *10 -(not only to call (they) with the politically correct words) - once (they) is changed to (them), this bit would pass for native English. *11 - neither *12 – (politically correct behavior without the deep changes of attitude)- correct and very nice *13 - united/one - either would work - Common people and the party are united/common people and the party are one. *14 - Both can be used correctly. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| SII Senior Member Russian FederationRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5796 days ago 184 posts - 194 votes Speaks: Russian* Studies: English | Message 123 of 248 15 March 2009 at 10:00am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Brian_N
It's terrible how many mistakes I do...
In Russian in these cases we use the preposition "но": "Я хотел идти на работу, но упустил автобус", "Мы сделали это за пять минут, но это было недостаточно быстро", "Я хотел идти купаться, но было слишком холодно", "Мы пытались поспать, но было слишком шумно". In "...to teach..., not only to call..." we may use "но" too, but better is use of the preposition "а": "...учить..., а не только называть...". This preposition has some meanings; in this case it is similar to "но" (both have shade of meaning of opposition: "want to go - but missed", "teach - not call"), so I used "but". Edited by SII on 15 March 2009 at 10:00am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| rafey Newbie United States Joined 5764 days ago 24 posts - 25 votes Speaks: English* | Message 124 of 248 17 March 2009 at 6:57pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Hypocrisy is the precise term, yes. Superficial, indeed! Political correctedness invariably reminds me of the scene in Dr. Zhivago jut after the Bolshievik Revolution when Zhivago points to one of his patients and says "he's dying of consumption (Tuberculosis) and starvation and other diseases 'we don't have in Moscow.'" (according to the Bosheiviks, all disease would vanish with the revolution and so total denial swept over the nation ... not unlike the Bush years here in the U.S.).
A bit is a smidg bigger than a tad and a tad is a smidgeon smaller than a bit. It is this type of expression that makes English as a second language confusing. The drive from the road to my house is a bit slanted. Some people say that my character is a bit slanted and that a book I have written has an interesting slant to it. Words with so many possible uses requires one to be all but born speaking the language. Yes. I would have to say that I live in the сельская местность, although I am isolated enough to be regarded as a small nation. the word Fort (форт) is a common designation for a town that developed around a place that was once used as a fort to protect the land against intruders. Florida has been under the control of 5 different nations at one time or another and has a number of ancient forts along its coast. Fort Walton Beach is now a somewhat trendy (there we go with another idiom) exclusive area not far from Pensicola in the largest county (a subregion of the state) in Florida. It is right on the Gulf of Mexico, however, I live just inland in what we call the 'countryside,' which is the precise translation of сельская местность. That is, as you say, 'pasture and farmland.' I do practice medicine and surgery. Possesive expressions are indicated in English using a 's .... so that you can make a sentence shorter by saying Alexander's book instead of the book of Alexander. This can be used with almost all posseive expressions. I am familiar with Russian's (there's a possesive!) 'reverse order' address ... reverse, that is, to those of us who put name of addressee first, and so forth. I think Brian is correct that you meant to say 'sickens' but 'vomit' was so wonderfully funny and quite appropriate, in any case. Humor is difficult (if not impossible) to translate between languages but sometimes we can be unintentionally funny without realizing it when we select the wrong word to use in the right place. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| SII Senior Member Russian FederationRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5796 days ago 184 posts - 194 votes Speaks: Russian* Studies: English | Message 125 of 248 17 March 2009 at 9:46pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
rafey
It is difficult to give (?) the exact translation for your habitation (dwelling?). If you be a farmer, your habitation be "хутор". If you be a landowner and your lands is cultivated by wage earners (?) or slaves, your habitation be "поместье". But you are neither a farmer nor a landowner, so I think that the best name for your habitation is "усадьба" or "коттедж" (the last word is the loanword "cottage"). In Russia after 1917 habitations alike your had disappeared. Now they appear again, but only very-very-very wealthy men may build or buy them.
Russian "город" historically is similar to a fort. The word "город" descend from the verb "городить", "огораживать" that is "encircle with a wall". Even very small settlement with the wall was named "город". In Russian "Middle Ages" appeared the word "острог" ("город" in this time already may be without the wall or may be much more than its wall -- for example, Moscow or Kiev in XV-XVI centruty). This word used for small fortified settlement in Siberia and Far East of Russia. For example, town Якутск (Yakutsk?, now one of biggest on the Far North-East) was begin as "острог" and only much later took the status of "город".
Yes, 'sickens' is the right word. Edited by SII on 17 March 2009 at 9:57pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Brian_N Pro Member Canada Joined 5769 days ago 200 posts - 202 votes Studies: English*, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 126 of 248 18 March 2009 at 2:58am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Okay I get you now, Russian apathy to western political correctness stems from Russian experiences under the Soviet Union, and not from a dislike of the concept itself. That makes perfect sense. Any population exposed to rhetoric long enough without the promises coming through would only naturally develop a “talk less – do more” mindset.
So going on the above, I’m going to guess that Russians have nothing against people of different cultures and religions getting along equally and being respectful to one another. Russian distaste of WPC comes from all the big ideals that the West is talking, while doing little to actually achieve those ideals. And through Russian eyes this policy is...even more ‘empty’ rhetoric. Is this about right? Either way though, thank you for explaining your reasons, I’m from a younger generation that has been pretty thoroughly indoctrinated with the idea of ‘political correctness’. To disagree with it is akin to saying you don’t believe that people of different ethnicity and beliefs should have the opportunity to coexist equally and in harmony, and that in turn implies that your either a racist or a bigot. It didn’t make sense in my mind that Russians could be either simply because of the sheer size of Russia and the many different peoples living in it. It's terrible how many mistakes I (make*1)... In Russian (in/for) these (situations) we use the preposition "но": "Я хотел идти на работу, но упустил автобус", "Мы сделали это за пять минут, но это было недостаточно быстро", "Я хотел идти купаться, но было слишком холодно", "Мы пытались поспать, но было слишком шумно". In "...to teach..., not only to call..." we may use "но" too, but (it) (is) better (to) use () the preposition "а": "...учить..., а не только называть...". This preposition has some meanings; in this case it is similar to "но" (both have shade of meaning of opposition: "want to go - but missed", "teach - not call"), so I used "but". It is difficult to give (?*2) the exact translation for your habitation (dwelling?*3). If you (are) a farmer, your habitation (would) be (called) "хутор". If you (are) a landowner and your (land) is cultivated by wage earners (?*4) or slaves, your habitation (would) be (called) "поместье". But you are neither a farmer nor a landowner, so I think that the best name for your habitation is "усадьба" or "коттедж" (the last word is the loanword "cottage"). In Russia after 1917 habitations (like) (yours) had disappeared. Now they (are) (appearing) again, but only very-very-very wealthy men may build or buy them. *1 – Your English is acceptable it just needs to be polished up a little. You’ve achieved a major milestone already, you can write in English and be understood by native English speakers...from what I gather that’s no small feat. *2- (It is difficult to give the exact translation for your habitation) - nothing wrong here *3-habitation/dwelling – both are acceptable here. *4-(your land is cultivated by wage earners or slaves) - nothing wrong here 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Brian_N Pro Member Canada Joined 5769 days ago 200 posts - 202 votes Studies: English*, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 127 of 248 18 March 2009 at 3:05am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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March 17th – Day 37
----------------------------------------------------------- Russian Grammar Study - Schaum's Outlines of Russian Grammar -(Progress-Chapter 2/8) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Brian_N Pro Member Canada Joined 5769 days ago 200 posts - 202 votes Studies: English*, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 128 of 248 18 March 2009 at 3:06am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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March 17th – Day 37
----------------------------------------------------------- Russian Grammar Study - Schaum's Outlines of Russian Grammar -(Progress-Chapter 2/8) Daily Deep Listening => Complete 1 person has voted this message useful |
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