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Well I guess Im learning Russian... | ||
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| SII Senior Member Russian FederationRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5796 days ago 184 posts - 194 votes  Speaks: Russian* Studies: English | Message 129 of 248 18 March 2009 at 2:20pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Brian_N
Rejection, not apathy. And not only by reason of our the past in USSR. If somebody behave himself politically correct but we shall be know that the person really just feign the correctness, we will be despise such person (and will not hide our relation to this person). But it is difficult to explain even to myself where is the border between hypocrisy and simply decent behavior, this difference is more the sense than the work of mind...
Yes, in general we have nothing against people of different cultures and religions, although it is some... er... complications. For example, we have no sympathy to USA as the country (not to Americans as people) because USA often intervene in other countries and simultaneously hypocrisy condemn others (if US bombers attack Serbia or Iraq -- this is good, but if Russian army try to destroy terrorists in Chechnya or to stop Georgian's attack to other nation in South Osetia -- this is bad; unexceptionable, B-52 and Tomahawks are the best way to democracy :) ). Relationships between Russia and Poland are difficult for many centuries (yes, in XVIII-XIX centuries Poland was divided between Russia, Prussia and Austria-Hungary, but previously, in XV-XVII centuries, Poland many times attack to Moscovia and even occupy Moscow and try to take Moscow throne; in second half of XX century Poland was in affected zone of USSR, but previously, in 1939, Poland together with Nazi German, divided Czechoslovakia...). But I say again: we have nothing against people of different cultures and religions, any problems arise by other reasons than race/nationality, culture or religion.
Absolutely right. Of course, this isn't mean that we think about ourselves that we are most good, fair etc nation or country or that all Westerns or Western countries are bad :)
Yes, I understood.
In Russia lived about 130 nations, and in whole there are no serious problems between us. In Russian Empire large nations of another culture and religion than Russians (first of all in Central Asia) have its own self-government; practically these nations were vassals of Empire: they had not independent foreign policy and etc, but in all others were practically independent. Before World War I Russia revived its navy (in Russo-Japanese War, 1904-1905, we lost almost all big ships), and quite many of new ships was named in honor of people or nations who was the biggest donor. For example, "Финн" (Finn) was named in honor of Finland – one of autonomies of Russian Empire; "Эмир Бухарский" (The Emir of Bukhara) was named in honor of the ruler of Bukhara (one of Russian vassal in Central Asia) etc. Names of some small nations, essentially Far East, previosly were reflect in names of Russian ships (for example, in the first day of Russo-Japanese War we lost cruiser Varyag ("Варяг") and gunboat Koreets ("Кореец" i.e. Korean), and other gunboat, Mandzur ("Манджур", i.e. Manchurian), was intern in Shanghai. In USSR "love to non-Russians" was bring to absurdity. For example, non-Russians had some privilegies before Russians (for example, in many universities was special quota for non-Russians, and Russian youth may not be accepted in university just if his/her balls was better than balls of non-Russian youth). Very many money spent for non-Russian republics of USSR although Russia needs money too (for example, in Moldova and Ukraine all villages had domestic gas but in Russia just now half of villages haven't it; I live in 120 km from Moscow and no gas here and all other nearby villages – and this is the centre of Russia!). The best level of life in USSR was in Baltic republics (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania), in Moldova and Ukraine, but all of these gave more money than return. In USSR only two of republic was money donors: Russia and Azerbaijan, the rest 14 was acceptor. In 1980-1990 inhabitants of area nearby to Moscow (Tver, Ryazan, Vladimir, Kaluga etc) was travel to Moscow for sausages, meat and other food: majority of Russian regions except Moscow, Leningrad and some other cities had no qualitative food and just moderate food wasn't enough; simultaneously it is a lot of food in Moldova, Ukraine and Baltic republics. But now, for example, many Moldavian went from Moldova to Europe or Russia: after crush of USSR cheap gas, electricity etc from Russia was vanish and industry and agriculture of Moldova was crash down. Same processes we may see in Ukraine, Georgia and most of other republics of exUSSR. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| rafey Newbie United States Joined 5764 days ago 24 posts - 25 votes Speaks: English* | Message 130 of 248 18 March 2009 at 6:54pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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When Russian attacked Georgia, I made a public statement in the local newspaper that Russia's action was equivalent to the U.S. having gone to war with Iraq for having invaded Kuwait. (I was against our attack then, just as I was against our more recent invasion and occupation). But, what was right for the U.S. was seen as wrong for Russia. Even Obama noted this discrepancy, but when he realized that the public was outraged and had obviously failed to see the parallels due to the usual Bush propaganda machine, he changed his mind. I fortunately grew up at a time when we were taught about the hypocrisy in school (and therefore came the counter culture movement in the 60s). That kind of education ended in the eighties for some reason and indoctrination set in along with re-writing the history texts. It is very difficult to overcome indoctrination but the internet appears to be helping in this matter ... as witnessed right here!
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| SII Senior Member Russian FederationRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5796 days ago 184 posts - 194 votes Speaks: Russian* Studies: English | Message 131 of 248 18 March 2009 at 11:15pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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rafey
You are the brave (courageous?) man. Although formally Iraq attacked the independent and sovereign state and Georgia attack the part of own territory. But if we will say only formally we will hypocrite. The internal borders in USSR didn't consideration areas where lived different nations, essentially they was drawn by geographical or economical reasons. For example, the border between Russia and Georgia was drawn by the Great Caucasus ridge (Большой Кавказский хребет; I don't know exactly how this name is written by English). As result, Abkhazia was included in Georgia and Osetia was divided between Russia and Georgia. In USSR this wasn't play any role because the border was exclusively administrative (its role was just less than the role of borders between US' states because difference in laws of soviet republics was nominal; probably, ), but now it is very important. However, today we can see political hypocrisy. When Estonia, Moldova, Georgia etc was separating from USSR (or, if you will, from Russia: anybody understand that USSR was the legal successor of Russian Empire), it was good. But when Russians or other nontitular ethnic groups in new countries (Abkhazians and Osetians in the north of Georgia, Gagauzians, Russans, Ukranians and Moldavians (!) in the south and east of Moldova, Russians and Byelorussians in Baltic countries, Russians, Rusins, Hungarians and many Ukranians (!) in Ukraine, Russians in Kazakhstan, Armenians in Azerbaijan etc) want go the same way – this is very bad. But when the borders was drawn nobody ask for peoples where draw it. Probably, the most idiotic borders are between Russia and Ukraine. Very long ago (IX–XIII centuries) was country Kievskaya Rus (Киевская Русь), its capital was Kiev – now it is the Ukraine's capital. But at that time wasn't Russians, Ukrainians, Byelorussians – there was Поляне, Древляне, Кривичи, Угличи and other east-slavonic tribes. In XII century this country went to the state of feudal atomism: formally it is the union country but really the Grand Duke of Kiev (великий князь киевский) didn't have any authority on the major portion of the country. In that ages was rise significance of north-east lands with the regional centre in Suzdal (Суздаль). In 1147 we see the first mention about Moscow. Yury Dolgorukiy (Юрий Долгорукий), knyaz of Suzdal, in the middle of XII century gave the title of the Grand Duke of Kiev, but remained in Suzdal. His son Andrey Bogolubsky (Андрей Боголюбский) and grandson Vsevolod the Big Nest (Всеволод Большое Гнездо – he had many children) formally also were the Grand Dukes of Kiev but really ruled from Suzdal and Vladimir. So really role of Kiev was descending. In 1237 Kievskaya Rus was crushed by Mongols and became vassal of Mongols, but far west regions kept independence. Practically from middle of XIII century began the gradual division of Kievskaya Rus' population to Russians, Ukranians and Byelorussians. East regions of former Kievskaya Rus formally got freedom in 1480, at that time the capital already was Moscow so the country was named Moscovia (Московия). But west regions at this time were absorbed by Rech Pospolitaya (Речь Посполитая) – the union country of Poland and Lithuania, the powerful state of that time. In XVIII century Poland was divided between Prussia, Austria-Hungary and Russia; north-west regions of former Kievskaya Rus (now they are in the west of Byelorussia) and part of proper Poland were included in Russia, other parts of proper Poland were included in Prussia and Austria-Hungary, and south-west regions of former Kievskaya Rus were included in Austria-Hungary. Of course, the Polish (and later Hungarian) language and culture had the great influence on population of west regions of former Kievskaya Rus, and Catholicism was forcing out Orthodoxy. In the Soviet Ukraine were united together four types of regions: 1) fully Russians in culture, religion, language etc, which wasn't in Poland or Austria-Hungary (all of the south and east including the Crimea; before Russians here was nomadic and semi-nomadic peoples who was vassals of Ottoman Empire); 2) regions which was in Poland relatively short and therefore preserved Orthodoxy as religion; its culture and language are mix of Russian and Poland (central regions of Ukraine including Kiev); 3) fully "polonised" (i.e. mutated by influence of Poland) regions (West Ukraine); 4) on war west of Ukraine lived Hungarians and Rusins (small Slavonic nation from former Austria-Hungary). So heterogeneous structure of population cause the jumble and chaos which we can see in the modern Ukraine: fully Russian regions, of course, want join to Russia (this is about a half of Ukraine's square and population and almost all industry!), "mixing" regions are "oscillating", former polonised regions want be independent (they are "real Ukraine"), Hungarians want to be in Hungary and Rusins want to have own state or, in the last resort, join to Russia.
About Obama I sayd to my friend (when he was be indignant at Obama's changing mind) that in "democratic" countries politicians don't be able do it that they want: they were forced take in account in the first place the public opinion even if this opinion is wrong. The exception was old British parliament, or more exactly, its Lord's Chamber: the peers might speak that they really think because they position was hereditary. Edited by SII on 18 March 2009 at 11:38pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| rafey Newbie United States Joined 5764 days ago 24 posts - 25 votes Speaks: English* | Message 132 of 248 19 March 2009 at 7:10pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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You are quite correct. Public opion reigns so long as the politician is running for office. It tends to take a back seat once the politician wins office. The House of Lords was always able to speak its mind due to the hereditary nature of its memebers (less so these days, howver) but it is the House of Commons where that is the more political branch and more equivalent to the Congress of the U.S.
The entire history of the world can be virtually reduced to the changing lines in the sand. As viewed from our Moon, water and land blend and territories become blurred or non-existent. Human differences diminish and our troubles become just so utterly irrelevant. what we all require is a voyage into space. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
 Brian_N Pro Member Canada Joined 5769 days ago 200 posts - 202 votes Studies: English*, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 133 of 248 13 April 2009 at 7:43pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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April 13th – Day 64
----------------------------------------------------------- Russian Vocabulary (+327) => 742 Nouns-Part 1-13 =>Complete Nouns-Part 14=> (23/50) => Under Review Nouns-Part 15=> (11/50) => Under Review Nouns-Part 16=> (9/50) => Under Review 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Brian_N Pro Member Canada Joined 5769 days ago 200 posts - 202 votes Studies: English*, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 134 of 248 14 April 2009 at 1:53am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Understanding My Motivations
Chinese, a fascinating language...being gibberish and all. I can’t bring myself to learn it though. China’s language, history, culture and its people...really don’t interest me. For me language learning is not an academic exercise...I have a sharp mind yes, but I’ve never considered myself to be one those people who learn things...just because. The more I come to understand my motivations in learning Russian, the more I’m coming to see that Russian is probably the only language I’ll be able to truly master. Why’s that? Well that goes right to the reasons why I’m learning Russian. Besides the beauty of the language...which sounds even more beautiful the more I learn it, Russians are Slavs, and when I look at Slavic people...I can’t shake the thought that these people...look like my people....I even see my green eyes among them. Slavic people have a certain look to them...they have that Slavic look, and it just so happens...I also have that (hot) Slavic look. I’m going to guess that it’s a major reason for my interest in the Russian/Belarus/Ukraine part of the world. Slavs are ‘familiar’ to me in some weird way that I can’t explain...again...they look like my people. China on the other hand...I see nothing familiar about it...Chinese people, Chinese culture, and Chinese language. It’s just...different, not familiar...no matter how I try I just can’t muster the energy to learn it. Russian comes effortlessly...Chinese...not so much...I guess its time to cut it loose. Edited by Brian_N on 14 April 2009 at 1:56am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Brian_N Pro Member Canada Joined 5769 days ago 200 posts - 202 votes Studies: English*, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 135 of 248 14 April 2009 at 6:23am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Day 64 – Progress Update and Random Thoughts
Learning Russian is going well. I’m almost through drilling in all the nouns that Declan’s Russian Flashcards comes with. Lately I’ve been focusing not so much on the spelling but the verbal comprehension of the words. I.e. As soon as I hear the word I know its meaning immediately. Is it working? I’d have to say...yes lol. There’s been a couple of times when I’ve been listening to Russia radio while I’m doing word review and I stop...“I understood that” lol. Those moments are few...but there slowly becoming more frequent. My verbal understanding should quicken once I start drilling adjectives and adverbs...right now my focus is on getting the 1000 nouns under control. And how are the nouns going...about 70% complete. The usually decay in memory is of course hampering efforts...but each time I review and redrill...the words stay a little bit longer than they did before...my victory here is only a matter of time. Sometime between September-November I should have these Flashcards totally completed...and that should give me about a 3000 word vocabulary. My grammar books can collect dust until then. Most places teach Russian through grammar...you get it shoved down your throat from day 1. But really...that’s not the way Russians learn it. As children they learn it by associating words to things...by the time they actually start studying grammar in primary they can already speak the language. So obviously grammar is not overly important, in the beginning anyways. I see developing a large vocabulary and verbal understanding is the best way to go initially. I will not be that guy who learns Russian though “sounding out the words in books” and come time to speak it gets half of it wrong. Is going this route...Inefficient? Yes. Time consuming? Definitely. Do I give a shit? Not at all. I’m weird like that...I don’t care if someone speaks to me and butchers the hell out of English...whatever, its English...like who cares? But if the roles reversed and I’m speaking someone else’s language...it’ll kill me if I speak it poorly lol. Looking forward, before I do go to Russia I’ll have to figure out how to get some form of Russian t.v. Why? So I can watch the Russian version of “Friends”...Really? Of course not dumbass...I need Russian t.v. so I can see how Russians dress, how they move, the look in their eyes and the persona's they generate. Why? So I can replicate them of course :) I can’t see the skin heads giving me any problems when I do go to Russia...I’m not from the Caucasus, I’m not black, not Chinese, not Muslim...I’m a 6 ft tall 230 pound solid Slavic looking white boy with green eyes and straight brown hair. Physically I’ll look like I belong...but just in case I want to make sure that I also look like I belong culturally. Skin heads will not bother what they cannot see. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Brian_N Pro Member Canada Joined 5769 days ago 200 posts - 202 votes Studies: English*, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 136 of 248 15 April 2009 at 4:37am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Day 65
Nothing new to add. Same old same old, another day...another clump of new words. Resistance is quite light, no difficulties as of yet. Can't see things changing much in the short terms so...I guess I'll be back when my vocabulary reaches 1500. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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