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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| vikramkr Diglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6097 days ago 248 posts - 326 votes  Speaks: English*, Portuguese | Message 9 of 24 19 June 2010 at 4:40am | IP Logged | ||
Awesome! Thank you! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| pookiebear79 Groupie United States Joined 6058 days ago 76 posts - 142 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Dutch, French, Swedish, Italian | Message 10 of 24 21 June 2010 at 12:39pm | IP Logged | ||
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I tried Livemocha last year. The main problems I had were 1) The writing exercises were at a 'harder' level than the (often very simple) corresponding lessons. So from the first lesson, you're expected to describe a man, a girl, a boy, and a couple of others using two words each. The problem is, (for example,)if one is a true beginner in a language with different endings/forms when describing a male or female person, the learner may not know this (or in one I tried, I knew there were different endings, but it was a non-roman alphabet and I'm a beginner and was trying to find the correct masculine/feminine forms, and finally I just realized it was pointless. The level for writing required, at a point where the program has only taught maybe 10-12 words, was just so out of proportion. If you think of a total beginner, doing the best they know based on the short lesson they've just had, are likely to be discouraged by someone correcting their exercise and telling them how they're wrong in the target language, which if they already understood, they'd not be having the problem to begin with.
Like I say, it just didn't quite 'work.' Not for a true beginner, anyway. It was ok for review/practice of languages I was at a higher level in already, but a bit boring. And in a very popular language other than English, (in my case French,) it seemed like native speakers were unwilling to do corrections for others because there were so many studying the language. (Meanwhile, as a native English speaker I felt a bit overwhelmed by the all requests to correct others' work, but I enjoyed it. I didn't feel comfortable evaluating the spoken exercises, but rather enjoyed helping with the written ones. But after a while, I tired of this one-way arrangement, as much as I enjoyed helping other learners, it wasn't an especially useful learning tool for me. So I kind of drifted away from the site out of boredom.) The second thing that really annoyed me about the site were the people who seemed to think it was just a popularity contest. For example, people would rush through the lessons, often submitting exercises that were a bunch of nonsense letters or numbers just to have it 'done' so they could go on to the next level. But they were really not learning anything, so they were doing themselves a disservice and I don't know why they bothered? It was a bit strange to find people who listed their English as 'advanced' and have a bunch of 'top English teacher' trophies by their name when their level of English was, at best, something like " Yesterday I go beach on car." And I noticed many of the people who blew off the practice exercises would have many people friended who were speakers of their own language/non-native beginners of the supposed target language, and they'd spend their time giving top ratings and "perfect!" comments to each other when they were really obviously not getting it. I wondered why they were wasting their time. These are exercises specifically meant to be 'corrected' if needed and/or receive constructive feedback, so exactly what progress were they really making this way? Anyway, as I said those were the main drawbacks of the site for me, but not the only reason I stopped visiting the site, I also have health reasons preventing me from devoting any time to it (or my language studies in general, sadly.) 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6039 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 11 of 24 21 June 2010 at 1:40pm | IP Logged | ||
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Oh, and while the feedback can be really useful, sometimes it can be so long in coming that you've completed the course and made the same mistake in every exercise before anyone points it out to you....
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| Juаn Senior Member Colombia Joined 5373 days ago 727 posts - 1830 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 12 of 24 22 June 2010 at 1:24am | IP Logged | ||
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I actually like the course outline and complete ignore submissions. Chat is interesting for meeting random people from around the world, but questionable for language learning - most people do not speak (write) very well. My main complaint is course quality. Audio is often terrible, and grammar and spelling mistakes are not uncommon.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| WandaShaw Newbie United States Joined 5278 days ago 3 posts - 3 votes | Message 13 of 24 12 July 2010 at 12:30am | IP Logged | ||
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Tried LiveMocha for Mandarin but beginner level should teach pinyin, not characters. Had
to abandon it because it assumed I immediately knew characters. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| exscribere Diglot Senior Member IndiaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5307 days ago 104 posts - 126 votes Speaks: English*, Danish Studies: Mandarin, French, Korean, Hindi | Message 14 of 24 12 July 2010 at 1:36am | IP Logged | ||
Usually there's a button to the lower right that allows you to switch from one orthography to another (ie. characters to pinyin). You should start learning characters ASAP anyway, and play the audio files, otherwise the reliance on pinyin can hold you back significantly as you learn. I just went to check Livemocha, but the site seems down for maintenance, so if they've changed those things (ie no more orthography switch, no audio options) they've done it since I used it last, and I'm sorry they're not there any more! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6039 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 15 of 24 12 July 2010 at 6:26pm | IP Logged | ||
Update: I was doing Swedish a month ago and of the 14 exercises I completed in Swedish, I only ever got feedback for one. In total I've done 16 exercises and received feedback for 3. In the same timeframe I've supplied feedback on dozens of people's English. Their algorithms should give priority to people who've been waiting and to active participants, but you go in to mark something and it starts with the most recent submissions. When you complete a task it asks you to mark someone else's task, and quite often the tasks you are assigned have already been marked by half-a-dozen people. It doesn't really encourage me to take part. Edited by Cainntear on 12 July 2010 at 6:31pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| WandaShaw Newbie United States Joined 5278 days ago 3 posts - 3 votes | Message 16 of 24 12 July 2010 at 6:36pm | IP Logged | ||
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[/QUOTE]
Update: I was doing Swedish a month ago and of the 14 exercises I completed in Swedish, I only ever got feedback for one. [/QUOTE] It sounds frustrating to get so little feedback but I'm guessing it's a function of how many Swedish speakers there are on the site. I did both Mandarin and Spanish on LiveMocha and I got tons of feedback on each lesson. I would assume this is because there are exponentially more Spanish or Mandarin speakers than Swedish speakers. You know that you can do a search for Swedish speakers and have the site email them directly to increase your feedback responses, right? 1 person has voted this message useful |
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