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German: gern vs. gerne | ||
Tags: Meaning of words | German | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| palfrey Senior Member Canada Joined 5274 days ago 81 posts - 180 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: German, French | Message 1 of 9 23 September 2010 at 4:27am | IP Logged | |||||
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Could someone please explain the difference in the usage of "gern" vs. "gerne" in German? Almost all of the dictionaries and grammars I have seen appear to treat gerne as nothing more than a variant of gern. In fact, the words are often listed together as "gern(e)".
I say almost all, as one grammar did suggest that gerne may show a bit more warmth than just plain gern. But as it was only the one book, I wonder how accurate this statement is. Thanks very much for any help. P.S. this is such a specific language question, perhaps it belongs in the Deutsch room. But that room seems intended more for communicating in German, so I'll try posting it here instead, under "Specific Languages". 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Doitsujin Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5321 days ago 1256 posts - 2363 votes Speaks: German*, English | Message 2 of 9 23 September 2010 at 7:22am | IP Logged | |||||
They're actually right. :-) IMHO, gerne is the older and less frequently used form. But both are OK. The Duden dictionary says:
If you want a more detailed explanation read the following (German) explanation by Germany's "Grammar Czar" Bastian Sick. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Romanist Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5283 days ago 261 posts - 366 votes Studies: Italian | Message 3 of 9 23 September 2010 at 10:38am | IP Logged | |||||
This is an interesting link which is worth pasting in full. What the "Grammar Czar" has to say on this point is: "Einen Bedeutungsunterschied zwischen "gern" und "gerne" gibt es nicht, auch in stilistischer Hinsicht ist kein Unterschied festzustellen - beide Formen gelten als gleichwertig. Die Form mit Endungs-e ist die ältere. Wie bei vielen anderen Wörtern auch hat sich die Endsilbe im Lauf(e) der Zeit in der gesprochenen Sprache verschliffen. Da sich Sprache in einem ständigen, nie endenden Optimierungsprozess befindet, werden Endsilben, die keine grammatische Funktion erfüllen, früher oder später abgestoßen. So hört man heutzutage häufiger "gern" als "gerne". Noch deutlicher wird die Entwicklung bei ferne/fern: Heute sieht man kaum noch jemanden "von ferne" winken, meistens heißt es "von fern". Mitunter verhält sich Sprache aber auch genau anders herum und lässt Wörter länger werden, ohne dass es dafür einen erkennbaren Grund gäbe. So geschehen mit "allein", das man oft auch als "alleine" antrifft, was aber nicht der Standardsprache entspricht. [ENG: There is no difference of meaning between "gern" and "gerne", and neither can any distinction be established on stylistic grounds - both forms are completely equivalent. The form with the "-e" ending is the older. As with many other words, the final syllable has gradually tended to fall away over the course of time in the spoken language. As language is continually undergoing a process of refinement, final syllables which perform no grammatical function are sooner or later disgarded. For this reason one nowadays hears "gern" more frequently than "gerne". The trend is even clearer in the case of "ferne/fern". Nowadays it is rather rare to see someone waving "von ferne", for the most part one would say "von fern". However language also behaves in exactly the opposite way - making words longer for no apparent reason. This is the case with "allein" which is also quite often rendered as "alleine". However, this is not standard usage.] Edited by Romanist on 23 September 2010 at 10:42am 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Romanist Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5283 days ago 261 posts - 366 votes Studies: Italian | Message 4 of 9 23 September 2010 at 10:59am | IP Logged | |||||
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NOTE OF INTEREST
Bastian Sick says: "Wie bei vielen anderen Wörtern auch hat sich die Endsilbe im Lauf(e) der Zeit in der gesprochenen Sprache verschliffen. Da sich Sprache in einem ständigen, nie endenden Optimierungsprozess befindet, werden Endsilben, die keine grammatische Funktion erfüllen, früher oder später abgestoßen." This seems to contain a certain contradiction. There is a tendency for some old dative endings (e.g. "im Laufe der Zeit") to fall away in modern German usage. Yet dative endings do indeed play a grammatical role... Edited by Romanist on 23 September 2010 at 2:00pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Doitsujin Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5321 days ago 1256 posts - 2363 votes Speaks: German*, English | Message 5 of 9 23 September 2010 at 11:20am | IP Logged | |||||
I'm afraid the German dative endings are on the verge of extinction. If you want to find out more about pitfalls in modern spoken German, check out Bastian Sick's Die Zwiebelfisch-Kolumne. He's also the author of the popular "Der Genitiv is dem Dativ sein Tod" books. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Romanist Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5283 days ago 261 posts - 366 votes Studies: Italian | Message 6 of 9 23 September 2010 at 11:29am | IP Logged | |||||
First the genitive goes AWOL, then the dative! At this rate you guys are going to be speaking DUTCH...! :-D 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| palfrey Senior Member Canada Joined 5274 days ago 81 posts - 180 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, French | Message 7 of 9 24 September 2010 at 1:57am | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks very much to both of you, for the explanation and translation. Someday I hope I can read the German directly on my own. Thanks for helping me get there.
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Mareike Senior Member Germany Joined 6225 days ago 267 posts - 323 votes Speaks: German* Studies: English, Swedish | Message 8 of 9 24 September 2010 at 6:14pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Oh, ich lern' hier noch meine Muttersprache.
Als Kind wurde mir beigebracht, wenn ich ein einen Buchstaben beim schreiben weglassen will, weil ich es beim reden auch tun würde, müsste ich für diesen ein Apostroph schreiben. Ich habe immer gedacht gerne und gern' gehören mit dazu. As I was a child, I learned If you want to leave out an letter you have to write an apostroph for it. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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