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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Hiiro Yui Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4719 days ago 111 posts - 126 votes  Speaks: English*, Japanese | Message 385 of 407 28 October 2012 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I see what you mean by making guesses about word usage and constantly revising those guess through conversation, but do you ever write anything down? Can you just memorize your guesses? I guess that's where talking to yourself a lot helps, right? You don't ask for explicit confirmation of your guesses during conversation because it would ruin the flow, right? Oh, I just looked back at the older posts here, and it seems that taking notes is part of that self-talk exercise. I'm thinking of jumping in once I figure out how to adapt it to my needs. I'm still nervous about creating bad habits and not getting corrected. Unlike you, finding new and creative ways of expressing myself in Japanese isn't fun. I prefer to know the "correct" way and I would love strict teachers.
My main guy (San Francisco, here) isn't really into giving detailed explanations of word usage or correcting me much. I had him read through my Japanese posts and although he didn't find many mistakes, he felt they somehow don't sound like a Japanese person wrote them. He couldn't give any more detail than that. The good thing about him is he puts up with my boastful attitude and constant arguing, but maybe I should wait until I find someone else before starting to talk more. It would help if I could find someone that could repeat my sentences with the correct intonations, too. I liked your idea about recording our conversation and playing it back so he can give better advice, but he's literally not patient enough (he'll probably change the subject) and he has his own ideas about how I should practice. He says I should do more small-talk, but I hate it because it's too unimportant. I want to discuss politics and science and things that matter. I'm searching for a partner on The Mixxer, but maybe I'm doing things backwards. Maybe I should post things on Lang-8 and find someone who can correct me and put up with me, and then get him to use Skype... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5383 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 386 of 407 29 October 2012 at 12:41am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I rarely write things down during a conversation. I cherish the moment and I try to invest myself in it, if I can. If I was looking for confirmation on something and it didn't come up, too bad; if it's important, it'll come up again. It always does.
I only take notes when I want to check something later, or ask someone. Generally, I try to do all my oral practice without notes. I'm not one to read notes anyway.
Again, you cannot be dependent on teachers. From the moment you figure out how to correct yourself, no teacher is needed and you never have to worry about not being corrected. Which doesn't mean you can't benefit from the input of a knowledgeable teacher every now and then, though, but if you have high goals and you can't find anyone to help you, then you know where to look -- to yourself. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5383 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 387 of 407 30 October 2012 at 7:28pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Stopping... to better start again
Generally, I really enjoy starting a new language. I have a strong initial burst of energy and I really love the kind of rush that comes with acquiring new habits and sonorities; it's like starting a new puzzle, a new project, a new relationship. Eventually, though, I often give up. I gave up a lot of languages that way. But later, when and if I ever go back to that language, it all comes back really quickly and this allows for fast progress. I think any new language has to simmer in you a bit before certain brain connections are made -- the sounds, intonations, tones, grammar concepts, tendancies, etc. By attacking it first and letting it simmer on the side, you can come back to it later and progress faster. My recent experience with Esperanto has even led me to think that it's an effective learning technique on its own. If I had to pick up a new language quickly, I'd go back to Norwegian or Italian because I already had a basis in it that would be easy to awaken to conversational level. I did a bit of Esperanto last November (almost a year exactly). I don't remember for how long, but maybe something like two weeks. Then I gave up. Well, I set it aside, to be more precise. Now, the possibility of using Esperanto at the next JES meeting has brought me back to Esperanto, so I started studying it again last week or so. Presumably because I continued to think about Esperanto and I'd see it every now and then, restarting now has brought on a quick recovery and improvement, so much so that I was able to hold a conversation with Sprachprofi after about a week. There's room for improvement of course, and this is Esperanto we are talking about, but still, there is a clear benefit to having done a bit of it a year ago. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Hiiro Yui Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4719 days ago 111 posts - 126 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese | Message 388 of 407 02 November 2012 at 11:55am | IP Logged | ||||||||
1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5383 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 389 of 407 02 November 2012 at 12:15pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Now, here's something you don't hear everyday. Good on you! Let me know how it goes! Edited by Arekkusu on 02 November 2012 at 2:39pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5383 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 390 of 407 06 November 2012 at 6:20pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Still working on Esperanto, although I don't get much time to study at all -- more production and self-talk than anything.
Posted this Esperanto text in Lang-8: La sinparolado 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5383 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 391 of 407 08 November 2012 at 2:42am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I'm trying to prepare a small workshop for some Japanese students on the topic of R/L.
If anyone has dealt with this issue in particular with some students and has advice on what has appeared to work, I'm all ears. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5383 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 392 of 407 10 November 2012 at 2:35am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I was just asked how I worked on my Esperanto by a person who had apparently liked my
last Lang-8 Esperanto text. Thinking through it, I think there are two main factors that had a strong impact and that might be a bit different from what most learners would do. First of all, I study little, but I rehash it a lot through self-talk. The result is that I get the feeling I own the material and I’m comfortable using it. Also, points of doubt arise during self-talk and I look up the answer as needed. Second point, I always read a text critically (from Teach Yourself or Lernu, or even a book like Fajron sentas mi interne, which I’ve also been reading), wondering whether I’d express myself that way – if not, I examine it until it makes sense or look for answers or reasons. I’m not concerned with understanding the text, but rather with whether I’ve assimilated the structure or words well enough that they could come out of my mouth. This critical look carries into any conversation and almost every time I say something, I filter it in the back of my mind to see if there was something wrong or possibly off. Many would say that it would be crazy to try to talk while always thinking about your mistakes, but I do it so often because of self-talk that it no longer has much of a negative effect, if any. That being said, Esperanto is a special case, and I'm not at all saying any other learner couldn't learn it just as quickly with their own personal techniques. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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