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Language/ Identity | ||
Tags: Cultural Identity | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Cultural Experiences in Foreign Languages | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| LorenzoGuapo Triglot Groupie United States Joined 6448 days ago 79 posts - 94 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: French | Message 1 of 60 29 April 2009 at 12:37pm | IP Logged | ||
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I know many people here in the US whose parents or grandparents are from other countries ie Mexico, Italy etc. However these people say they are 100% Mexican,Italian, etc but they don't speak the language whatsoever, they may know a few words and share some traditions and eat the food. They are actually more American than what they say, on the other hand I know people whose parents and grandparents are from these places and do know the languages fluently and have been to those countries so I feel that they are closer to their ethnicity and can consider themselves 100% Mexican,Italian, etc. What do you all think?
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| Jar-ptitsa Triglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 5902 days ago 980 posts - 1006 votes Speaks: French*, Dutch, German | Message 2 of 60 29 April 2009 at 2:34pm | IP Logged | ||
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It seems weird when an american say that he/she's Italian, German, swedish etc but was never in the country and
can speak only English, but the great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather was from there. I think that it would be better to say, for exmaple: "I'm american and my ancestors were Italian" . If the person can natively speak the language, but lived all the live in the US, the person can say: 'I'm american but my family's from Italy" or "I'm ethnic Italian but I lived all my live in the US". To say "I'm Italian" by an american who's monolingual anglophone is ridiculous, and make think that the person thinks that in Italy the people speak English, not Italian, or that Italy doesn't exists excepted in New York (or the other US cities). 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5851 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 3 of 60 29 April 2009 at 2:49pm | IP Logged | ||
Yes, I for 100 % agree to that. I would never consider myself to be Polish just because my grandfather came from Silesia and I have his family name. This would be quite nonsense. Fasulye-Babylonia 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6443 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 4 of 60 29 April 2009 at 3:47pm | IP Logged | ||
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It's simply a different concept.
It sounds nonsensical to most Europeans, because the phrase "I'm Italian" means something almost entirely different to a typical European and a typical monolingual American of Italian descent... as does the more extreme form of "I'm Welsh, Bohemian, Russian, Greek, Japanese, (... another dozen nationalities here)". In the latter case, it's clearly a matter of descent rather than claiming to be a full-fledged member of each culture. In the former, things are a good deal blurrier. It's not nonsensical, it's just..... different. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7160 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 5 of 60 29 April 2009 at 4:12pm | IP Logged | ||
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Volte sums it up quite nicely. European and North American concepts of nationality are quite different.
Another thing to keep in mind is that current concepts on nationality in Europe arose during the 18th and 19th centuries. North America on the other hand effectively acted as a "dumping ground" for European colonists and a lot of the Europeans came to North America for reasons of religious persecution or economic benefit. Rabble-rousing or abstract concepts involving national awakening were often the last thing on these people's minds. In the same way, 1848 in many European minds holds special significance. For most North Americans, it has little resonance. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Yukamina Senior Member Canada Joined 6268 days ago 281 posts - 332 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean, French | Message 6 of 60 29 April 2009 at 6:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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I find it silly too. People always ask where I'm from and they are never satisfied with "I'm Canadian". Because my skin is brown this somehow means I can't be fully Canadian.
Edit: grammar error Edited by Yukamina on 30 April 2009 at 2:36am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| portunhol Triglot Senior Member United States thelinguistblogger.w Joined 6256 days ago 198 posts - 299 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: German, Arabic (classical) | Message 7 of 60 29 April 2009 at 7:27pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think that it depends on what the person means. Those of us who have been here for many generations and have very mixed ancestry (like myself) do sound pretty funny when we say, "I'm 1/27th German, 1/19th Irish, 1/7th Mexican, 2/15ths Italian..." It's funny how many of these African/Mexican/Japanese/Korean/Indian, etc. Americans would be considered foreigners in those places. I think it's too bad that Yukamina can't simply be Canadian, seeing that Canada is an immigrant country similar to the US, just because he/she is not Caucasian.
Those whose lives are different because of their ancestry do well to say where their people come from. If I were raised in a bilingual (or non-English speaking) household, did not grow up eating the same foods as my friends and had different customs than those of the average American, then I think it would make perfect sense to identify myself as Hmong, Greek, Peruvian, etc. While language is a very important factor here, I don't think it's the only one. If you don't act like most everybody else it's okay to tell other people why. Edited by portunhol on 29 April 2009 at 7:34pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| andee Tetraglot Senior Member Japan Joined 7081 days ago 681 posts - 724 votes 3 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Korean, French | Message 8 of 60 30 April 2009 at 2:24am | IP Logged | ||
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As Volte said, it's the concept of nationality being different across cultures.
I have always considered myself English since I was born there and spent some childhood years there. I always call myself English, support England in all sports above all else. As a sidenote, I secondly say my family is Polish and I can identify with being Polish on many levels. I have however, spent most of my life in Australia and am an Australian citizen. I only call myself Australian by default when asked where I come from. I don't, never have, and probably never will consider myself Australian. But on the other hand, my Korean wife can not understand how myself and my family call me English and not Australian. No matter how I've tried to explain our thinking, she just can't perceive me as anything other than Australian - even if I try to rationalise it as if she had lived in Australia for a long time, would she then stop being Korean. The answer, no, she's Korean. And our children will be Korean. But I'm Australian when I'm English, and our children will likely be Australian in my opinion (provided they're born here) but Korean in hers. It's all subjective and we should just accept it. Edited by andee on 30 April 2009 at 2:27am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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