Renaming the cities of other countries... (General discussion) Language Learning Forum

Renaming the cities of other countries...
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Language Learning Forum : General discussion

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tommus
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Message 121 of 192

24 September 2012 at 7:17pm | IP Logged

In my opinion, the most beautiful place name in the English language is Tierra del Fuego, the islands off the southern tip of South America. Thank goodness the name wasn't changed to Land of Fire in English. Unfortunately, the French changed it to Terre de Feu, the Dutch changed it to Vuurland, and the Germans to Feuerland, all quite dull compared to the original Spanish.

Say Tierra del Fuego a few times and see how it rolls off the tongue so nicely. Beautiful "English" place name! Thank you Spain.

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Josquin
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Message 122 of 192

24 September 2012 at 7:25pm | IP Logged

Марк wrote:

Then why isn't written in English in a way which would satisfy the Spanish pronunciation
(adopted to English)? And that's what I'm talking about. English speakers rarely borrow
anything from ear.

It's ['mɛksiko:] and ['tɛksas] in German, too. Those names were created in times when there were no mass media, by which people could have heard the native pronunciation of places. They would simply pronounce place names the way they pronounced words in their own language. That's why Paris is ['pæɹɪs] in English and [pa'ʀi:s] in German, while the French say [pa'ʀi]. Russians always have to transscribe names into Cyrillic letters, so they have to listen for the way the names are pronounced. It's just that simple.

Edited by Josquin on 24 September 2012 at 7:29pm
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Марк
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Message 123 of 192

24 September 2012 at 7:47pm | IP Logged

Josquin wrote:

Марк wrote:

Then why isn't written in English in a way which would
satisfy the Spanish pronunciation
(adopted to English)? And that's what I'm talking about. English speakers rarely borrow
anything from ear.

It's ['mɛksiko:] and ['tɛksas] in German, too. Those names were created
in times when there were no mass media, by which people could have heard the native
pronunciation of places. They would simply pronounce place names the way they
pronounced words in their own language. That's why Paris is ['pæɹɪs] in English and
[pa'ʀi:s] in German, while the French say [pa'ʀi]. Russians always have to transscribe
names into Cyrillic letters, so they have to listen for the way the names are
pronounced. It's just that simple.

No. People borrowed words from ear even in the ancient times. English and German
pronunciation of Paris are probably the Old French pronunciation changed because of
phonetic laws.
But the same is happening now in the English language, and even when they have to
transliterate. While other languages that use the Latin alphabet rewrite words
according to the pronunciation. Russians rewrite words even if the original language
uses the Cyrillic alphabet.
The fact that in German the stress is on the second syllable in the word "Paris" means
that it was borrowed together with the pronunciation.

Edited by Марк on 24 September 2012 at 8:04pm
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tractor
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Message 124 of 192

24 September 2012 at 8:07pm | IP Logged

Serpent wrote:

tractor wrote:

Ari wrote:

tarvos wrote:

The Dutch word for a country far away (that they
don't care to name/is fictional/said
in jest) is "Verweggistan". Literally meaning "farawayistan." We can only use this in jest though.

Swedish version: "Långtbortistan".

Norwegian version: Langtvekkistan (Langtbortistan would work too.)

It is a word typical of the Donald Duck & Co. comics.

are these associated with countries like Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan etc? Or not?

In a way they are, since all the countries with names ending in -stan are in that part of the world.
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tractor
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Message 125 of 192

24 September 2012 at 8:17pm | IP Logged

tommus wrote:

I think they are all nice names. I also like the Norwegian name: Ildlandet.
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Josquin
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Message 126 of 192

24 September 2012 at 9:07pm | IP Logged

Марк wrote:

No. People borrowed words from ear even in the ancient times. English and German pronunciation of Paris are probably the Old French pronunciation changed because of phonetic laws.
But the same is happening now in the English language, and even when they have to
transliterate. While other languages that use the Latin alphabet rewrite words
according to the pronunciation. Russians rewrite words even if the original language
uses the Cyrillic alphabet.
The fact that in German the stress is on the second syllable in the word "Paris" means that it was borrowed together with the pronunciation.

Hmm, good point. But what about 'London' ['lɔndɔn] or 'Madrid' [ma:'dʀɪt]? In these cases, the original pronunciation has obviously been Germanized according to the spelling.

I can see your point that original pronounciation should be respected. But what should be done in your opinion? Something like in Lithuanian where 'George Bush' becomes 'Džordžas Bušas'? And why is 'Washington' Вашингтон in Russian? This doesn't represent English pronunciation either.

Edited by Josquin on 24 September 2012 at 9:55pm
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PillowRock
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Message 127 of 192

25 September 2012 at 2:43am | IP Logged

tommus wrote:

Except, of course, that most English speakers (or, at least most Americans) say it with an English double R rather than the Spanish double R.
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tarvos
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Message 128 of 192

25 September 2012 at 8:17am | IP Logged

Марк wrote:

tarvos wrote:

Because it's written like that in Spanish and in English x
usually means
a [ks] sound?

No genius needed to explain that

Then why isn't written in English in a way which would satisfy the Spanish pronunciation
(adopted to English)? And that's what I'm talking about. English speakers rarely borrow
anything from ear.

Why does it need to be? They're speaking English, not Spanish, they can call it whatever
they want.

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