Renaming the cities of other countries... (General discussion) Language Learning Forum

Renaming the cities of other countries...
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Language Learning Forum : General discussion

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Levi
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Message 129 of 192

25 September 2012 at 12:13pm | IP Logged

tommus wrote:

In my opinion, the most beautiful place name in the English language is Tierra del Fuego, the islands off the southern tip of South America. Thank goodness the name wasn't changed to Land of Fire in English. Unfortunately, the French changed it to Terre de Feu, the Dutch changed it to Vuurland, and the Germans to Feuerland, all quite dull compared to the original Spanish.

Say Tierra del Fuego a few times and see how it rolls off the tongue so nicely. Beautiful "English" place name! Thank you Spain.

Maybe it's just me, but I think Fireland would make an awesome place name!
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Ari
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Message 130 of 192

25 September 2012 at 12:57pm | IP Logged

One of the silly things about the Chinese writing system is the way it handles foreign loan words, such as place names. The name will generally sound decently similar in the language into which is was borrowed, but then the characters are used in other Chinese languages and pronounced according to each language's phonetics. So whereas Washington sounds pretty good in Cantonese (jyutping "waa-sing-teon", sounds like "wah-seng-tonn" or "waa-sheng-tonn"), in Mandarin it sounds like "huashengdun" (hwa-shung-dooun). Sweden, borrowed from English into Cantonese, is "seoi-din" in Canto but "ruidian" in Mando. In the same way, the Czech Republic is relatively close in Mandarin (jieke) but wholly alien in Canto (zit-haak). And Ethiopia is pretty weird in both languages ("aise'ebiya" in Mando, "aai-coi-ngo-bei-aa" in Canto), so I don't know how that one was imported.
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Serpent
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Message 131 of 192

25 September 2012 at 1:39pm | IP Logged

According to wiktionary, Russia is Éluósī and ngo-lo-si. The Mandarin one is more similar for sure...
Mind telling what was the fate of Fēnlán, Mòsīkē, Kèluódìyà, Pútáoyá and Lǐsīběn in Cantonese? :) (I mean I can't find the Cantonese pronunciation of these... but I'm damn curious now:P)
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Марк
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Message 132 of 192

25 September 2012 at 2:44pm | IP Logged

Josquin wrote:

Hmm, good point. But what about 'London' ['lɔndɔn] or 'Madrid' [ma:'dʀɪt]? In these
cases, the original pronunciation has obviously been Germanized according to the
spelling.

I can see your point that original pronounciation should be respected. But what should
be done in your opinion? Something like in Lithuanian where 'George Bush' becomes
'Džordžas Bušas'? And why is 'Washington' Вашингтон in Russian? This doesn't
represent English pronunciation either.

I don’t see any influence of spelling in the German names of the cities.
In Lithuanian “as” is a nominative ending, which must be attached to all the nouns.
But they did not write "George" and pronounced it something like гяорьгя (I'm not sure
I'm right) according to Lithuanian pronunciation rules instead of Džordžas.
That's what usually happen in English.
Serbo-Croatian borrowed the English word "jam". It is spelt džem and pronounced
/dʒem/. They do not spell it "jam" and pronounce it /jam/.
But the English language usually uses the second strategy, am I right?

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tarvos
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Message 133 of 192

25 September 2012 at 2:47pm | IP Logged

Most of the time, yes. But they're speaking English. They do not at all have to adhere to
the original pronunciation.
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Марк
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Message 134 of 192

25 September 2012 at 2:53pm | IP Logged

tarvos wrote:

Most of the time, yes. But they're speaking English. They do not at all
have to adhere to
the original pronunciation.

I don't say what they have to. I'm pointing the difference between the English language
and other languages.
I try to pronounce geographic names in a way they are pronounced in the languages I'm
speaking. But sometimes I simply don't know how to do that.
In English it is especially difficult because everything can be pronounced in any way.

Edited by Марк on 25 September 2012 at 3:20pm
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tarvos
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Message 135 of 192

25 September 2012 at 3:18pm | IP Logged

Ah, forgive me, but it feels like you're making a value judgement about this difference
implicitly as well. Or don't you feel that the original phonology should be respected and
that the spelling should suit the phonetics, and not vice versa?
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Марк
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Message 136 of 192

25 September 2012 at 3:22pm | IP Logged

tarvos wrote:

Or don't you feel that the original phonology should be respected and
that the spelling should suit the phonetics, and not vice versa?

Yes, I do. Especially the second part of the sentence. I have nothing against the English
language and the way it treats loan-words, but I feel that this approach is strange and
illogical.

Edited by Марк on 25 September 2012 at 3:24pm

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