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t123
Diglot
Senior Member
South Africa
https://github.com/t
Joined 5613 days ago
139 posts - 226 votes 
Speaks: English*, Afrikaans
| Message 49 of 53 28 February 2011 at 11:49pm | IP Logged |
Iversen wrote:
Apart from that: it is clear that the Balkan countries is a good place to become polyglot
(like places like Luxembourg and Mauritius), |
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Unless Mauritius has moved recently, I think you meant Macedonia.
People living in developed countries have a lifespan of say 80 years. If you start at the
age of 30, I think 50 years is more than sufficient time to become very good at 10
languages, even putting in only a little effort. It's more a question of whether you're
dedicated enough to put in the time than actually being able to do it.
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Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 6705 days ago
9078 posts - 16473 votes
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
Personal Language Map
| Message 50 of 53 01 March 2011 at 12:11am | IP Logged |
No, I actually meant Mauritius. There is a statistic somewhere on the internet over the average number of languages known by the inhabitants of different countries. And surprise surprise: Mauritius was near the top on that list with something like 3,5 languages per person (quoted from memory). I haven't got the link here, but there is a reference to it somewhere on this forum.
I agree that 50 years should be enough to learn 10 languages, given enough motivation and favorable circumstances. But you should start studying long before the age of 30.
Edited by Iversen on 01 March 2011 at 12:15am
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| t123
Diglot
Senior Member
South Africa
https://github.com/t
Joined 5613 days ago
139 posts - 226 votes
Speaks: English*, Afrikaans
| Message 51 of 53 01 March 2011 at 12:42am | IP Logged |
Sorry, I misread your sentence. It looked like you were saying Mauritius was part of the Balkans, but then neither is Luxembourg. As
for age, yes probably the earlier the better. The point was more people live a while and there is sufficient time to accomplish quite a
lot. There's more than enough time to become good at 10 languages, or learn to play 10 instruments or whatever. Doing it quickly is the
hard part.
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| portunhol
Triglot
Senior Member
United States
thelinguistblogger.w
Joined 6254 days ago
198 posts - 299 votes
Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: German, Arabic (classical)
| Message 52 of 53 01 March 2011 at 1:52am | IP Logged |
Here is another thread that I am starting late on but I still would like to add my two cents. Language learning has three main factors:
1. Desire.
2. Opportunity.
3. Method.
Talent is real and it helps but I think these three factors are more important. If you lack one of these you will almost certainly not learn a language much beyond the basic stage. I think being a polyglot is influenced by the same three factors. I think that most people could become polyglots if they wanted to, lived a lifestyle that facilitated it and had a language learning system that worked for them so they could become a polyglot.
As far as language switching goes, I agree with those that say it is a matter of custom. At first, when I had university classes in all three of my top languages I would sometimes come home to my wife and stutter for a few moments. Switching gears was not easy. Now, years later, I have fewer problems with it.
Edited by portunhol on 02 March 2011 at 12:45am
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| mick33
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5926 days ago
1335 posts - 1632 votes
Speaks: English*
Studies: Finnish
Studies: Thai, Polish, Afrikaans, Hindi, Hungarian, Italian, Spanish, Swedish
| Message 53 of 53 31 March 2011 at 11:35pm | IP Logged |
Cainntear wrote:
anothername wrote:
On topic: I do feel that is perfectly possible to speak more than 10 languages IF they are close enough. So, the question is: which are the 10 languages?
Polyglots like Torbyrne and Luca get my attention because they choosed mostly to learn languages not so distant, and that sounds like a really wise choice.
I feel a normal person, with average language skills, could learn, let's say, portuguese/spanish/italian/catalan/romanian/french/english/d utch/danish/swedish/greek without sweating too much, because the basic structures really doesn't differ that much, but learning, let's say, German/russian/turkish/amharic/yoruba/marathi/tamil/arabic/t hai/cantonese/korean would certainly be a huge deed. |
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There's a competing theory that says that similarities to a known language is useful in the early stages of learning, but becomes a source of interference that prevents full mastery later on.
One of the complications that may prove hard to master is the rules of past participal agreement in perfect aspect in the Romance languages. I hope this is right, because this is what I've been told in the past. It may be wrong, so consider it indicative, not definitive...
Spanish: one auxiliary (have), no agreement
Catalan: one auxiliary (have), agreement with weak pronoun direct objects
Italian: two auxiliaries (have, be), agreement with subject in "be", agreement with weak pronoun direct objects in "have"
French: two auxiliaries (have, be), agreement with subject in "be" but not "have", indirect reflexive object breaks "be" agreement in absence of direct object (participle becomes masculine singlar), and agreement with weak pronoun direct object or relative pronoun before verb overrides all of the above.
The series of minor variations is thought to be hard to resolve, resulting in imperfect performance as the form from one language bleeds into another.
It's a theory, and I don't know or even care if it's true or not.
I have no personal opinion on the matter and I don't chose my languages based on it. That said, I do think there's sufficient doubt to say that we can't immediately judge polyglots based on the similarity of their spoken languages. |
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Interesting theory. I don't know enough about the similiarities and differences between the Romance languages to comment on them but I do have limited experience with learning three Germanic languages to varying levels. Afrikaans, Dutch and Swedish are quite similar sometimes and it is very easy and fun to build a small base of knowledge in each language based on similarites with the others; but I have also had to pay careful attention to the differences, including even the very minor ones, from the very beginning levels to avoid confusion and interference, especially with Afrikaans and Dutch. When I did the 6-week Dutch challenge in January I noticed that I could read simple passages in Dutch and understand them with little effort. Even before the 6-week Dutch challenge I had already learned that it was possible to write basic or intermediate level sentences in Afrikaans and be understood by Dutch speakers. I also understood about half the spoken Dutch I listened to during this time, but when I wrote Dutch I sometimes made mistakes with word order and conjugated verbs incorrectly or not at all because it was easier to use Afrikaans grammar but Dutch spelling. Yes, the word order is very similar but Dutch seems somewhat more complex and I can't always recognize my errors in sentence construction. I know this was interference from Afrikaans because in Afrikaans only the verbs "om te wees" (the to-infintive form of the English verb to be) and "om te hê" (the to-infinitve of to have)are ever conjugated and only three verb tenses are commonly used. In Dutch the corresponding verbs are "zijn" and "hebben" respectively and of course every other verb conjugates as well and there are more than three tenses that are commonly used. As for word order, Afrikaans and Dutch both have the V2 word order where the verb is always, or almost always, in the second position but there are subtle differences in where to place adjectives, conjunctions and adverbs in the two languages.
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