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Guttural sounds in Dutch | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Philological Room |  | |
| koba Heptaglot Senior Member AustriaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5872 days ago 118 posts - 201 votes  Speaks: Portuguese*, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Hungarian, French | Message 1 of 7 07 April 2011 at 4:29am | IP Logged | ||
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I've been wondering lately why Dutch has such guttural and distinguished sounds in the language, while other Germanic languages such as German, Swedish, Icelandic keep a more "clean" sound. Specially the dutch "G", why is it so distinguished? I wonder if it was for the specific purpose of being unrecognizable to other Germanic dialects/languages. Take for example two similar expressions like "Guten Tag"(German) and "Goeden Dag"(Dutch). While written it's sort of decipherable for speakers of both languages, but while spoken they sound totally different.
I find it awesome and for me it makes Dutch all the more special to be learned, but at the same time, it arouses curiosity. So, my question is, has it always been like that or has it changed throughout the course of history? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| William Camden Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6276 days ago 1936 posts - 2333 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Russian, Turkish, French | Message 2 of 7 07 April 2011 at 12:20pm | IP Logged | ||
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Danish seems more guttural to me than Dutch.
I find Dutch's lack of a hard g sound interesting, especially when it is such a major sound in closely-related German. Edited by William Camden on 07 April 2011 at 12:21pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| cntrational Triglot Groupie India Joined 5131 days ago 49 posts - 66 votes Speaks: Hindi, Telugu, English* Studies: French | Message 3 of 7 07 April 2011 at 12:36pm | IP Logged | ||
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Dutch simply didn't go through the sound shifts that other Germanic languages did.
e.g., the Dutch g is [ɣ] a voiced velar fricative, all Germanic languages had this at one time, but most changed it to [ɡ] the voiced velar stop. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| koba Heptaglot Senior Member AustriaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5872 days ago 118 posts - 201 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Hungarian, French | Message 4 of 7 08 April 2011 at 3:04am | IP Logged | ||
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Hmm, interesting. But why is it that all the other Germanic languages changed their "g" while Dutch didn't?
PS: Another curiosity about Dutch is the "ij", you just don't see it in any other languages. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| cntrational Triglot Groupie India Joined 5131 days ago 49 posts - 66 votes Speaks: Hindi, Telugu, English* Studies: French | Message 5 of 7 09 April 2011 at 8:01pm | IP Logged | ||
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It's just something that happens. Some languages change and some don't.
The Dutch ij is just [ɛi], which isn't uncommon at all. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| schoenewaelder Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5564 days ago 759 posts - 1197 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 6 of 7 15 April 2011 at 4:26pm | IP Logged | ||
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I assumed it was because of the Spanish domination.
/CH/ is not really as different from /g/ as it first sounds. /k/ is a devoiced /g/ and the next sound you can make by moving the articulation point further back is /CH/. The order is /s/->/sh/->/ch/->/k/->/CH/ with the tongue moving from the front of mouth to back and then throat (or /z/->/j/->/y/->/g/->/R/ for the voiced versions). The Berliners pronounce their "g" as /y/ and the Swiss pronounce their "k" as /CH/. Of course if it turns out to be nothing to do with the Spanish, then you have to start wondering if it was due to the sounds of the pre-indo-european settlers who lived in the region, and wether they left any lingering influence. Or just accept that these things happen. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| JW Hexaglot Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/egw Joined 6126 days ago 1802 posts - 2011 votes 22 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Ancient Greek, French, Biblical Hebrew Studies: Luxembourgish, Dutch, Greek, Italian | Message 7 of 7 15 April 2011 at 7:08pm | IP Logged | ||
That is a very interesting theory and this is a very intruiging thread. It certainly is striking to those who speak German and Dutch how similar the languages are in orthography, but how different they are in phonology--not only in pronunciation but also in rhythm and cadence. However, I find the exact same phenomenon with Spanish/Portuguese... 1 person has voted this message useful |
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