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Open and closed vowels in Italian | ||
Tags: Pronunciation | Italian | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| nicozerpa Triglot Senior Member Argentina Joined 4327 days ago 182 posts - 315 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, Portuguese, English Studies: Italian, German | Message 1 of 17 23 February 2014 at 1:12am | IP Logged | ||
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Hello! I have a question about Italian pronunciation: is there any rule to determine if a given stressed
vowel should be open or closed? Of course, I'm talking about unaccented vowels. I know there exists some differences among regional accents, but I'm asking about the "standard" variant of the language. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4669 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 2 of 17 23 February 2014 at 7:36pm | IP Logged | ||
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There are no rules (lists that provide ''rules'' have even longer lists of exceptions to accompany them).
You can always use pronunciation dictionaries: 1) il DIPI> http://www.dipionline.it/dizionario/ 2) il DOP> http://www.dizionario.rai.it/ I stopped learning Italian because many times there are differences between vowels in both languages: standard/central Italian and Portuguese (in Portuguese there are no variability among accents/dialects when it comes to stressed E/O realization): gelo (closed E in Portuguese, open E in Italian) neve (open E in Portuguese, close E in Italian) promessa (open E in Portuguese, close E in Italian) preço/prezzo (close E in Portuguese, open E in Italian) morto (close O in Portuguese, open O in Italian) corpo (close O in Portuguese, open O in Italian) jogo/gioco (close O in Portuguese, open O in Italian) enorme (open O in Portuguese, close O in normative Italian) etc. Because of these differences, the Italian accent is easily identifiable in Portuguese, and vice versa. Italians sound funny while speaking Portuguese, and Portuguese and Brazilians sound funny while speaking Italian. Spanish speakers speaking Italian with only 5 vowels could sound like Southern or Northeastern (Friuli) Italians ;) Edited by Medulin on 24 February 2014 at 7:06pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| albysky Triglot Senior Member Italy lang-8.com/1108796Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4389 days ago 287 posts - 393 votes Speaks: Italian*, English, German | Message 3 of 17 24 February 2014 at 11:12am | IP Logged | ||
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Yes , there are differences, as Medulin said , but i do not think that they prevent from understanding .
Anyway, if you learn Italian using audiobooks , podcasts of national radios, films etc ,you are very likely to be confronted with the "standard" ,thus i really cannot see the problem . Of course if you talk to people you will come across variations , but again i don 't think it is really a problem. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 4 of 17 24 February 2014 at 2:46pm | IP Logged | ||
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Maybe what you actually need is to learn to hear the difference?
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| nicozerpa Triglot Senior Member Argentina Joined 4327 days ago 182 posts - 315 votes Speaks: Spanish*, Portuguese, English Studies: Italian, German | Message 5 of 17 24 February 2014 at 6:46pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks for the answers! I asked this question because
I'd like to improve my pronunciation. I can hear the differences between open and closed vowels and I can pronounce them too, but I don't know which vowel I should use when I speak or read aloud. Now, I'm using the five Spanish vowels. Medulin, the DIPI dictionary is excellent, thank you for the recommendation. Albysky, you're right, I usually watch RAI Italia and listen to Italian radios too, I guess I'll pick up the right pronunciation eventually. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4669 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 6 of 17 24 February 2014 at 6:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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Unfortunately, many people on RAI speak with a Roman accent and not according to the Tuscan-based standard:
''Roman'' céntro (close), esémpio (close), mémbro (close), rispòsta (open), iéri (close), léttera (close), pòsto (open), bisògno (open), colònna (open),Giòrgio (open), orgòglio (open), dòpo (open), allègro (open), Cèsare (open), enòrme (open) Tuscan: cèntro (open), esèmpio (open), mèmbro (open), rispósta (close), ièri (open), lèttera (open), pósto (close), bisógno (close), colónna (close), Giórgio (close), orgóglio (close), dópo (close), allégro (close), Césare (close), enórme (close) In ''corsi di dizione'' the Roman variants are discarded as ''substandard''. Overall, RAI actors (both those on RAI Fiction and dubbing actors) speak more in line with the dictionary standard than most newscasters on RAI. I can recommend singers with a standard-like accent: http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categoria:Gruppi_e_musicisti_de lla_Toscana Edited by Medulin on 24 February 2014 at 7:13pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| michaelyus Diglot Groupie United Kingdom Joined 4566 days ago 53 posts - 87 votes Speaks: Mandarin, English* Studies: Italian, French, Cantonese, Korean, Catalan, Vietnamese, Lingala, Spanish Studies: Hokkien | Message 7 of 17 24 February 2014 at 7:24pm | IP Logged | ||
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But if you really want some lists and exceptions:
é, è and ó/ò. If my going by Italian Wikipedia is correct, if the word in Italian is derived from Latin, either as a cognate or by loaning, then: Latin short e > Italian è = /ɛ/; Latin æ (ae diphthong) > Italian è = /ɛ/; Latin long e > Italian é = /e/; Latin short i > Italian é = /e/ (which changed to /i/ in certain conditions, e.g. before -gl-, -gn-, -ng-, -nc-); Latin œ (oe diphthong) > Italian é = /e/; Latin short o > Italian ò = /ɔ/; Latin au diphthong > Italian ò = /ɔ/ (except those that were already monophthong-ised in Latin into a Latin long o, which follows the pattern below); Latin long o > Italian ó = /o/; Latin short u also > Italian ó = /o/ (which changed to /u/ in certain conditions, e.g. before -gl-, -gn-, -ng-, -nc-). And I think non-Latin foreign borrowings become open vowels, although that might follow different phonological processes now. "Unaccented vowels" - that confused me for a bit: "vowels written without an accent" and "vowels that do not take the stress" are both covered by that [I think I was thrown off by thinking in Italian, where 'stress' = "accento"]! PS: And just to add, a list of standard Italian non-homophonic homographs. Edited by michaelyus on 25 February 2014 at 11:00am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| drygramul Tetraglot Senior Member Italy Joined 4469 days ago 165 posts - 269 votes Speaks: Persian, Italian*, EnglishC2, GermanB2 Studies: French, Polish | Message 8 of 17 25 February 2014 at 12:44am | IP Logged | ||
Fortunately, everyone outside Tuscany doesn't care too much about their personal taste in pronunciation. Regional pronunciation are allowed, correct, and sound even more natural than dubbed movies. In fact, this type of pronunciation is only taught at diction schools. It's not even spoken in Tuscany. There's a standard Italian grammar and vocabulary and no standard pronunciation of Italian. I quote here: Milano è quindi il luogo dove la pronuncia, ad alto livello socio-educativo e di formalità, è più vicina alla norma standard, senza però raggiungerla del tutto. (Galli de' Paratesi) I am from Milan area, our accent is quite similar, and being a native bilingual and having trained my ear in at least 6 other languages, and achieved a high academic degree in Milan's Statale university, I can't hear or pronounce the difference between open or closed vocals, and no Milanese will, except for diction professionals. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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