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Wenn sie ihren Mantel aufgemacht hat | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| Random review Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5784 days ago 781 posts - 1310 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin, Yiddish, German | Message 1 of 11 12 March 2014 at 2:46pm | IP Logged | |||||
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From Assimil German (2004), Lesson 74 #9.
The full sentence reads: Wenn sie ihren Mantel aufgemacht hat, hat man zuerst gedacht, sie ist nackt darunter. It refers to Marlene Dietrich opening her coat in one of her films, revealing a flesh-coloured dress that (apparently) fooled audiences into momentarily thinking she was naked underneath. My problem with this sentence is that I don't know why "wenn" has been used instead of "als". My understanding was that "wenn" means "whenever" and yet presumably she only opened the dress once so I expected "als". Is it because she provoked this reaction by "opening the dress" everytime someone watched the film? I'd be grateful if somebody could explain. Thanks in advance. Edited by Random review on 12 March 2014 at 5:00pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Tollpatchig Senior Member United States Joined 4008 days ago 161 posts - 210 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Maltese | Message 2 of 11 12 March 2014 at 2:54pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I've never heard of 'wenn' meaning whenever. I'm not saying it doesn't, just personally
wasn't aware, I know it to mean if/when. So I read the sentence as "When she took off her coat..." 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4845 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 3 of 11 12 March 2014 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | |||||
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In this case, "wenn" really means "whenever".
"Als" would be a reference to a single occasion, but the meaning of this sentence really is "whenever she opened her coat". 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Random review Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5784 days ago 781 posts - 1310 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin, Yiddish, German | Message 4 of 11 12 March 2014 at 4:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
But that's what's confusing me: she only opened her coat once in real life. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Random review Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5784 days ago 781 posts - 1310 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin, Yiddish, German | Message 5 of 11 12 March 2014 at 5:03pm | IP Logged | |||||
It means if/when in the present or future. In the past you use "als" to mean "when" referring to a single occasion and "wenn" for "when" meaning multipke occasions (like "when he arrived late, his boss always shouted at him") that can usually (but not always) be translated "whenever". Edited by Random review on 12 March 2014 at 5:04pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4845 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 6 of 11 12 March 2014 at 5:22pm | IP Logged | |||||
I think the implied thought is that this scene can be watched by several people on different occasions and they'd always think she was nude. Edited by Josquin on 12 March 2014 at 5:25pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Random review Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5784 days ago 781 posts - 1310 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin, Yiddish, German | Message 7 of 11 12 March 2014 at 5:24pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Actually, I think I must have been unconsciously translating into English and therefore allowed the fact
that "whenever" doesn't sound right in this sentence in English to confuse me. Whatever is happening in the English translation, German very logically uses "wenn" rather than "als" becauae it is her opening the coat when the film is played (multiple occasions) that is connected with the reaction of the audience (on multiple occasions), not the one-time action of opening the coat while being filmed. Er, I think. Can anyone confirm? Edited by Random review on 12 March 2014 at 5:26pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4845 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 8 of 11 12 March 2014 at 5:27pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I think you're right, Random review!
It would be possible to use "als" in this sentence, but then you'd refer to the one occasion when you watched the film. "Wenn" makes clear that this happens to everybody who watches the scene (on every occasion, so to speak). 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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