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German: on the ch sound | ||
Tags: Pronunciation | German | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 4083 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes  Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 1 of 12 29 March 2014 at 2:32am | IP Logged | |||||
I have been having this problem with the ch sound as quoted above. Today I realized, thanks to the German CD intensive course that I have the same issue with "Welche" which I have been pronouncing as "Welshe". Again, the "l" I say results in my touch touching the top of the mouth which then makes ch as sh. So any similar tricks here? Is it the case that whenever a ch is involved the preceeding consonants are modified so that the tongue does not touch the roof of the mouth? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Doitsujin Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5321 days ago 1256 posts - 2363 votes Speaks: German*, English | Message 2 of 12 29 March 2014 at 4:09am | IP Logged | |||||
It's quite possible that you also pronounce the German "l" incorrectly, if you pronounce it like most native US English speakers. In British English (RP) there are two ways to pronounce "l": 1. light l: e.g. lily 2. dark l: e.g. wall However, most native US English speakers use the more velarized "dark l" pronunciation in both cases. If that's the case, you'll also have to work on the correct pronunciation of the l. As for "ch," it might help if you break up words such as "welche" into two syllables and pronounce each separately. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cabaire Senior Member Germany Joined 5600 days ago 725 posts - 1352 votes | Message 3 of 12 29 March 2014 at 8:53am | IP Logged | |||||
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When I say "welch" [vɛlç], my tongue jumps from my upper alveolar ridge to my lower front teeth, when I transition from the [l] to the [ç]. When I say "welsch" [vɛlʃ], it stays up.
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| Sunja Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6086 days ago 2020 posts - 2295 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, German Studies: French, Mandarin | Message 4 of 12 31 March 2014 at 9:58am | IP Logged | |||||
daegga makes a really good point. Germans produce a lot of the sounds from the back towards the middle of the mouth. I would not neglect practicing all the sounds because I think other sounds in combination with -ch- are what causes a lot of frustration for us Amis :)
 [/IMG]
Record a native speaker saying Weihnachten, Wächter, nichts, Töchter, Hochzeit, Bauch, Bücher, leicht, Besucher and listen to ch in combination with the other Lauten/sounds. listen to a native say nach, hoch Bauch, Besuch and then listen to Töchter, Bücher, leicht You can get away with using sch for these words and it won't get noticed. Similarly, you can probably get away with saying "neex" for "nichts" but make sure to use the short German "i" and not the elongated English "ee". That would sound weird :) just my two cents ;) Edited by Sunja on 31 March 2014 at 10:06am 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Doitsujin Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5321 days ago 1256 posts - 2363 votes Speaks: German*, English | Message 5 of 12 31 March 2014 at 12:29pm | IP Logged | |||||
You'll certainly be understood, but native speakers will notice if you use [ʃ] instead of [ç] in these words, unless [ʃ] is also used instead of [ç] in their regional dialect variety. I'd advise German language learners against using [ʃ] instead of [ç] unless they cannot produce [ç] at all. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Sunja Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6086 days ago 2020 posts - 2295 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, German Studies: French, Mandarin | Message 6 of 12 31 March 2014 at 1:01pm | IP Logged | |||||
First-year learners really have a hard time with it. I have an English couple who just moved to Germany and everything is completely new, not just -ch-, and while I do correct them, I'll tell them at the same time it's okay to cheat a little, especially since they have to speak German now. Their biggest problem is everyone they come in contact with speaks English to them. They're having a hard time practicing that -ch-! ^^ 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Doitsujin Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5321 days ago 1256 posts - 2363 votes Speaks: German*, English | Message 7 of 12 31 March 2014 at 3:17pm | IP Logged | |||||
There's a HTLAL thread about this topic: How to get Germans to speak German to you IMHO, the easiest solution is to simply ask; if they're beyond the German equivalent of Tarzan speak, most Germans won't have problems speaking German with them. If that doesn't work, they could resort to "guerrilla tactics" with people who don't know them (e.g., pretend not to understand English etc.). 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| daegga Tetraglot Senior Member Austria lang-8.com/553301 Joined 4522 days ago 1076 posts - 1792 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Swedish, Norwegian Studies: Danish, French, Finnish, Icelandic | Message 8 of 12 31 March 2014 at 8:49pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Hmm... when I try speaking with a dark l, I'm unable to pronounce the "ch" correctly,
but it comes out as a alveolo-palatal fricative, not as a "sch". To my ears, this sounds still somewhat like a "ch", but with a Scandinavian accent. One thing to notice is that most German speakers protrude their lips quite a lot when making a "sch", but don't do that when making a "ch". Trying to consciously do this might help to automatically make the right sound even in harder contexts. It's not a necessity, I myself don't do this, but it might be worth a shot. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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