Japan/Chinese [USE English] (Advice Center) Language Learning Forum

Japan/Chinese [USE English]
Tags: Phrasebook \| Textbooks \| Beginner \| Mandarin \| Japanese
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14 messages over 2 pages: 1 2 Next >>

Gen
Newbie
United States
Joined 3743 days ago
8 posts - 8 votes

Message 1 of 14

26 August 2014 at 10:48pm | IP Logged

Hi! I'm Josh, 13 y/o. My mom gave me this mandarin phrasebook and audio CD

http://www.amazon.com/Mandarin-Phrasebook-Audio-Lonely-Plane t/dp/1741799317

do you think that this book can really make me learn mandarin?

Also in Japanese.

I ordered this book to start learning.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/4795818436/ref=oh_aui_detai lpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Mom also helped me by buying a application from amazon too! It's called Human Japanese.

http://www.amazon.com/Brak-Software-Human-Japanese/dp/061517 9088

Do you all think these will help me learn these 2 languages? Arigatou Gozaimasu! / Xiè
xiè :)
1 person has voted this message useful

Gen
Newbie
United States
Joined 3743 days ago
8 posts - 8 votes

Message 2 of 14

28 August 2014 at 6:46am | IP Logged

Bump?
1 person has voted this message useful

AlexTG
Diglot
Senior Member
Australia
Joined 4637 days ago
178 posts - 354 votes

Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Latin, German, Spanish, Japanese

Message 3 of 14

28 August 2014 at 9:22am | IP Logged

It's better to learn one language well and then learn a second language after. Go with
the one which interests you more. If you're into anime it should be an easy enough
choice :) (if you're not into anime, watch Death Note NOW)

You'll be able to get a feel for the language using a phrasebook, but not learn it. To
speak a language you need to be able to produce your own sentences, not quote other
peoples'.

Your post made me curious and I got Human Japanese for myself and I must say it looks
like a very good program for starting out. However as a general rule, resources which
are good for starting out aren't so good for getting you to an advanced level. This is
no exception. But that's OK, there's plenty of other resources out there for you to
move onto when you're ready. To quote the creator of Human Japanese:

Quote:

Sometimes people write to ask me if they'll know the whole language after using
Human Japanese. While I think this is a great text, I can confidently answer no to that
question. See, if there's one thing you'll learn when studying a language, it's how big
a subject it is. Even adults who have spoken their native language for decades still
encounter words or turns of phrase that they are unfamiliar with from time to time. So
it is simply not possible to "learn the whole language" in a few months or even years.

What I hope you have gotten out of this text is a solid understanding of the foundation
on which Japanese is built. You have a secure base from which you can branch out as you
learn more. I think you'll be able to straightforwardly relate the things you learn in
the future to the things you've learned in this text, and I'm happy to have had the
chance to lay this foundation with you.

To continue on, I recommend two things. First, find a conversation partner if at all
possible and start putting the stuff you've learned here to the test. Secondly,
consider an intermediate to advanced textbook to learn more complex constructions. If
you enjoyed Human Japanese, check the web site for a new piece of software that picks
up where this one left off. As of this writing at the beginning of 2007, I'm currently
working hard on this new text.

Good Luck! Japanese is a great language and Mandarin is probably alright too I guess,
if you're into that sort of thing.

Edited by AlexTG on 28 August 2014 at 11:01am
1 person has voted this message useful

smallwhite
Pentaglot
Senior Member
Australia
Joined 5307 days ago
537 posts - 1045 votes

Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin, French, Spanish

Message 4 of 14

28 August 2014 at 10:38am | IP Logged

Gen wrote:

http://www.amazon.com/Mandarin-Phrasebook-Audio-Lonely-Plane t/dp/1741799317

do you think that this book can really make me learn mandarin?

Just this book alone, no. But I find Lonely Planet and similar pocket phrasebooks very useful and convenient, and very good to have. Do take it around with you, and read a bit whenever possible.
1 person has voted this message useful

Gen
Newbie
United States
Joined 3743 days ago
8 posts - 8 votes

Message 5 of 14

29 August 2014 at 2:12am | IP Logged

smallwhite wrote:

Gen wrote:

http://www.amazon.com/Mandarin-Phrasebook-Audio-Lonely-Plane t/dp/1741799317

do you think that this book can really make me learn mandarin?

Just this book alone, no. But I find Lonely Planet and similar pocket phrasebooks very
useful and convenient, and very good to have. Do take it around with you, and read a
bit whenever possible.

Haha read a bit possible, I like books, i barely play video games even though im always
getting spoiled by my aunt/uncles giving me all these PC and Consoles, i mostly read
books, but yea, Thank you very much for the tips! And Phrasebook isn't enough huh?
that's expected, anyway, do you think I should like get a dictionary of this or
something? or get a class? any helps will be greatly appreciated and thank you for
replying!

Edited by Gen on 29 August 2014 at 2:17am
1 person has voted this message useful

Gen
Newbie
United States
Joined 3743 days ago
8 posts - 8 votes

Message 6 of 14

29 August 2014 at 2:16am | IP Logged

AlexTG wrote:

It's better to learn one language well and then learn a second language
after. Go with
the one which interests you more. If you're into anime it should be an easy enough
choice :) (if you're not into anime, watch Death Note NOW)

You'll be able to get a feel for the language using a phrasebook, but not learn it. To
speak a language you need to be able to produce your own sentences, not quote other
peoples'.

Your post made me curious and I got Human Japanese for myself and I must say it looks
like a very good program for starting out. However as a general rule, resources which
are good for starting out aren't so good for getting you to an advanced level. This is
no exception. But that's OK, there's plenty of other resources out there for you to
move onto when you're ready. To quote the creator of Human Japanese:

Quote:

Good Luck! Japanese is a great language and Mandarin is probably alright too I guess,
if you're into that sort of thing.

Hi! I'm not really studying 2 languages at a time lol, I also have school, so I'll
probably pick between these 2 languages. Umm, English is not really my language, but
what do you mean by "To
speak a language you need to be able to produce your own sentences, not quote other
peoples'. " because I want to take this thing, beginner then probably middle, then
advanced, i'll take it slowly because i really want to understand the concept, and yes,
I do watch anime. cx. What do you think is the best sources for these 2 languages or
best tips or ways to learn them besides with all these Phrasebooks and all that? Even
if takes me years and years, i'll still try to learn this languages.
Thanks!

Edited by Gen on 29 August 2014 at 2:19am
1 person has voted this message useful

AlexTG
Diglot
Senior Member
Australia
Joined 4637 days ago
178 posts - 354 votes

Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Latin, German, Spanish, Japanese

Message 7 of 14

29 August 2014 at 9:20am | IP Logged

Slow and steady is the attitude to have. Try to do something in the language each day,
even if it's small.

Let's Learn Japanese
This is a TV show for people learning Japanese. It starts simple and gets more
complicated each episode. Each episode they play a clip from an ongoing story line
about a guy moving to Japan. Then they talk about a new grammatical concept. Then
they do some comedy skits demonstrating the use of the grammatical concepts. The main
advantage of this show will be developing your ability to listen and understand, but
it can also be good for reviewing concepts you learn elsewhere. I think it would be
quite helpful to go through this at the same time as Human Japanese. The episodes are
available on Youtube.

Remembering The Kanji
Kanji are Japanese characters which primarily represent meanings rather than sounds.
There are about 2000 of these which all Japanese learn in high school. Remembering
The Kanji by James Heisig is a book which teaches you how to learn these 2000
characters. Basically the characters are made of parts and each part is used in many
different kanji. In order to memorise the Kanji you make up a story to relate the
meanings of the different parts to the meaning of the character as a whole. The website
Reviewing The Kanji allows you to easily review the
characters you've learnt and see other peoples' stories.

Other resources
A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar - Very good concise grammar explanations
Tae Kim's Japanese Grammar Guide - Very good wordy grammar explanations.
Assimil Japanese - Japanese dialogs on one page, English translations on the other and
a recording to listen to as you read.
The Japanese Reader Collection - Enjoyable stories in simple Japanese.
Memrise - If you want to memorise words this is apparently the way to do it (you could
also take the laid back approach of allowing the words to seep in to you each time you
read them, and not worrying too much how long it takes)
Jisho Dictionary - I don't actually own a Japanese
dictionary, I just use this online one.

General advice
There are four different language skills: reading, writing, speaking and listening. Two
of these are passive (reading and listening) and two are active (writing and speaking).
The passive skills are easier to pick up than the active skills. Your abilities will
end up completely unbalanced, you will be better at some skills and worse at others.
That's fine, the other skills catch up eventually if they're important to you (I can't
imagine any reason why I'd ever want to write in Japanese, so I'll probably always be
terrible at it).

Once you've finished with the readers I suggested, read stuff written for Japanese
people. Nothing could improve your abilities more. Manga are good for this because they
have pictures to help you work out the meaning. Also good are books you already know
well (many users on this forum swear by reading Harry Potter in their target language).
Having the English version of the book by your side is fantastic because it works as a
super convenient dictionary, with all the words already looked up and easily findable
when you need them.

Quote:

what do you mean by "To speak a language you need to be able to produce your own
sentences, not quote other
peoples'."

Phrase books give you phrases that real natives would say in a particular circumstance.
But they don't tell you why a native chose those particular words, or that particular
sentence structure. They don't show you how to produce new phrases based on your
individual thoughts, but rather give you pre-made phrases you can use in given
situations.

Edited by AlexTG on 29 August 2014 at 9:47am
3 persons have voted this message useful

Gen
Newbie
United States
Joined 3743 days ago
8 posts - 8 votes

Message 8 of 14

30 August 2014 at 3:08am | IP Logged

AlexTG wrote:

Slow and steady is the attitude to have. Try to do something in the
language each day,
even if it's small.

Let's Learn Japanese
This is a TV show for people learning Japanese. It starts simple and gets more
complicated each episode. Each episode they play a clip from an ongoing story line
about a guy moving to Japan. Then they talk about a new grammatical concept. Then
they do some comedy skits demonstrating the use of the grammatical concepts. The main
advantage of this show will be developing your ability to listen and understand, but
it can also be good for reviewing concepts you learn elsewhere. I think it would be
quite helpful to go through this at the same time as Human Japanese. The episodes are
available on Youtube.

Remembering The Kanji
Kanji are Japanese characters which primarily represent meanings rather than sounds.
There are about 2000 of these which all Japanese learn in high school. Remembering
The Kanji by James Heisig is a book which teaches you how to learn these 2000
characters. Basically the characters are made of parts and each part is used in many
different kanji. In order to memorise the Kanji you make up a story to relate the
meanings of the different parts to the meaning of the character as a whole. The website
Reviewing The Kanji allows you to easily review the
characters you've learnt and see other peoples' stories.

Other resources
A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar - Very good concise grammar explanations
Tae Kim's Japanese Grammar Guide - Very good wordy grammar explanations.
Assimil Japanese - Japanese dialogs on one page, English translations on the other and
a recording to listen to as you read.
The Japanese Reader Collection - Enjoyable stories in simple Japanese.
Memrise - If you want to memorise words this is apparently the way to do it (you could
also take the laid back approach of allowing the words to seep in to you each time you
read them, and not worrying too much how long it takes)
Jisho Dictionary - I don't actually own a Japanese
dictionary, I just use this online one.

General advice
There are four different language skills: reading, writing, speaking and listening. Two
of these are passive (reading and listening) and two are active (writing and speaking).
The passive skills are easier to pick up than the active skills. Your abilities will
end up completely unbalanced, you will be better at some skills and worse at others.
That's fine, the other skills catch up eventually if they're important to you (I can't
imagine any reason why I'd ever want to write in Japanese, so I'll probably always be
terrible at it).

Once you've finished with the readers I suggested, read stuff written for Japanese
people. Nothing could improve your abilities more. Manga are good for this because they
have pictures to help you work out the meaning. Also good are books you already know
well (many users on this forum swear by reading Harry Potter in their target language).
Having the English version of the book by your side is fantastic because it works as a
super convenient dictionary, with all the words already looked up and easily findable
when you need them.

Quote:

what do you mean by "To speak a language you need to be able to produce your own
sentences, not quote other
peoples'."

thank YOU so much!! once i get my japanese book (shipping from Japan, its been 2-3 days
now..) I'll start learning it, thank you so much! And I think i know i'll be better at
passive probably and active will need much work but thank you so so much! It's just
that, my mom has this international job and we might move to Japan or either China
(pending..) and i'm really excited and nervous at the same time, so. we'll see.

For your "Other Resources" post, are these books/sites free or do you have to pay for
them? Thanks!

I understand about the phrasebooks now, do you think I could just use all the sources
you gave me to fully learn japanese, or do you recommend more?

People say, Kanji's probably the hardest thing to learn, as you say too, i think, i'll
do my best, or TRY my best :D.

Thanks for the TV show "Let's learn japanese" once i get my book i'll start reading.
Thank you so much for replying and what do you think should I do to fully understand
Japanese without any troubles, mistakes, I tried learning japanese all of a sudden like
I went to this site called "Japanesepod101" and, it just got me really rushed, i didnt
know what romaji, kanji, was, till i researched a bit. thanks for replying again
Cheers!

1 person has voted this message useful

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