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Radioclare’s tac log 2015 (*jäŋe/*ledús) | ||
Tags: Macedonian | Serbian | Serbo-Croatian | Croatian | Esperanto | Total Annihilation Challenge (TAC) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5167 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes  Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 57 of 292 09 February 2015 at 7:55pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Congratulations on finishing the Super Challenge, Radioclare! You deserved it!
Your comments on the voicing/devoicing issue in Macedonian was a bit discouraging, I agree. Even if I'm more-or-less used to it from Russian, I like languages that don't devoice better, so I prefer Croatian at this respect, too. And thank you Serpent for the insight on housing in Russia ;) 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 58 of 292 09 February 2015 at 8:59pm | IP Logged | |||||
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It's not that Croatian doesn't devoice, it just reflects it in the spelling :)
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| Radioclare Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom timeofftakeoff.com Joined 4584 days ago 689 posts - 1119 votes Speaks: English*, German, Esperanto Studies: Croatian, Serbian, Macedonian | Message 59 of 292 09 February 2015 at 11:34pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks Expugnator :) I am massively behind with your log but hope that your SC is
going well too! Croatian doesn't have devoicing at the ends of words. So, for example, 'grad' is simply pronounced as 'grad', whereas in Macedonian it would be pronounced 'grat'. Croatian does have the sort of devoicing where if two consonants are together the first one changes depending on the second one. But, as Serpent says, the spelling always changes to match the pronunciation, so you don't need to learn the rules; you can just absorb the spellings. This is one of the reasons I think it will always be my favourite Slavic language :) I hope I will get used to the devoicing in Macedonian in time. I find it quite off- putting that something like this is in the first chapter of the book, because it feels like straight away there's something really hard about this language that I can't understand. So I think that my strategy for now will just be to ignore it, focus on learning some Macedonian so that I have a better feel for the language (and locate some decent audio so I can listen to it) and come back to perfect the devoicing thing in a couple of months when I hopefully feel more confident :) 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Radioclare Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom timeofftakeoff.com Joined 4584 days ago 689 posts - 1119 votes Speaks: English*, German, Esperanto Studies: Croatian, Serbian, Macedonian | Message 60 of 292 10 February 2015 at 12:14am | IP Logged | |||||
Thank you Serpent for all those insights :) I think I would make a rubbish Eastern European as I like personal space and solitude far too much :D I did actually live with my parents for longer than is usual in the UK (until I was about 25) and I get on with them pretty well, but having had my own house for over 5 years now I can't imagine that I would cope well with going back to sharing. I was actually really confused by the storyline in 'Budva' to start with, because I had understood that this woman was about to spend her life savings on buying a little house with a sea view and I had understood that her boyfriend was going to come from Belgrade to live with her, but I had assumed that they were going to live together on their own. I was quite perplexed when I got to the episode which was their moving-in day and the rest of the family started packing up and moving all their belongings as well! I don't want to start ruining the storylines for you as I'm guessing I'm about 16 episodes ahead, but there is another middle-aged character who proposes to his girlfriend and assumes (without asking her) that when they get married she will come and move in with his family. She is absolutely aghast by the idea (as I would be!) but the impression I'm getting from the way this storyline angle is being portrayed is that the viewers are supposed to be sympathising with the guy and the woman's refusal is meant to be an indication that she isn't a very nice person.
I guess this is way off the topic of languages, but I read an interesting article in one of the Croatian newspapers about this last week. It was about people in Poland who had taken out mortgages in Swiss Francs and who were obviously set to have serious problems after the recent exchange rate movements. There was a proposal that governments should force banks to hold the exchange rate at the previous level for a few months to give people time to find the extra money, though I'm not sure whether that was actually going to happen. Again, I was really interested to read about that because I'd never heard of people taking out loans in currencies other than their own before. I think getting these insights into different countries is the best bit about learning another language :) 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Radioclare Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom timeofftakeoff.com Joined 4584 days ago 689 posts - 1119 votes Speaks: English*, German, Esperanto Studies: Croatian, Serbian, Macedonian | Message 61 of 292 13 February 2015 at 10:37pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I am still massively behind with reading logs, but the weeks are slowly getting better
for me workwise. I haven't done any reading/watching TV in Croatian yet this week, but I have spent at least half an hour a day on Memrise. They are running a challenge in February to set personal goals for different courses and try to maintain them for 12 days in a row. I set a goal to achieve 20 000 points per day in a course called "A long list of Croatian verbs". I completed the 12 days yesterday evening, having learned 333 verbs :) Now I think I can get entered into a draw to win a sticker or something :D When I can manage to relax enough in the evenings, I've been enjoying reading in German this week. At the moment I'm reading Schutzpatron, the sixth book in the Kommissar Kluftinger series. Highly recommend it :) My only other language activity this week has been listening to lots of Brkovi. Struggling to make this sound terribly educational, but I was listening to a song called Hoću da budem svoj this morning and it occurred to me that it contains a good example of the difference in pronunciation between sam=am and sam=alone (Listen about 20 seconds in to the lyric "pa sad dobro znam da u ljubav vjerujem samo kad sam sam"). I've got a free weekend in front of me so will hopefully get lots done. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 62 of 292 14 February 2015 at 1:38am | IP Logged | |||||
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Interesting about sam sam. To me it actually sounds like the first sam is barely there and the second one is stressed. (like "that that that that that man said" contains 2-3 different tones imo ;)) But I admit I have no clue how the tones are supposed to work in Croatian.
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| Radioclare Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom timeofftakeoff.com Joined 4584 days ago 689 posts - 1119 votes Speaks: English*, German, Esperanto Studies: Croatian, Serbian, Macedonian | Message 63 of 292 14 February 2015 at 3:21pm | IP Logged | |||||
Yes, that's right :) The first 'sam' is a clitic and clitics are always unstressed, so in speech the difference between the two words should always be clear. In writing they often put a circumflex over the 'alone' type of 'sam' to show the difference, eg. "samo kad sam sâm". Similarly to distinguish between 'da' (that) and 'da' (gives) they sometimes write the latter as 'dâ'.
If you understand that sentence you speak better English than me :D 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 64 of 292 14 February 2015 at 4:47pm | IP Logged | |||||
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The full sentence is the following:
He said that that "that" that that man said was correct. :D Does the ^ imply a specific kind of tone? I also see other tone marks sometimes but I don't know how to read them and kinda don't bother tbh. I have much more pressing comprehension problems to solve first :D I guess what I'm trying to say is that to me the difference is mostly about intonation, rather than pronunciation. The tones aren't the Chinese ones anyway :D 1 person has voted this message useful |
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