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Translation of Latin phrase | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Eugene Newbie Russian Federation Joined 6185 days ago 5 posts - 5 votes | Message 1 of 12 27 February 2008 at 5:08pm | IP Logged | ||
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Can anyone help with translation of this phrase: "utrum vis aeternum"?
Thanks in advance. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ruffy Diglot Newbie Scotland Joined 6189 days ago 4 posts - 4 votes Speaks: English*, Italian Studies: German, Spanish, Russian | Message 2 of 12 29 February 2008 at 10:20am | IP Logged | ||
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Hmmmm, I read it as "Whether power/strength is forever/eternal"
Could be wrong... I'd need to look it up in a dictionary to be exact, but this should provide a general meaning. What is the overall context to it? (i.e. do you have the preceeding and subsequent sentences?) Kind regards, AJ 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Eugene Newbie Russian Federation Joined 6185 days ago 5 posts - 5 votes | Message 3 of 12 02 March 2008 at 11:50am | IP Logged | ||
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Thank you :)
This is a complete phrase. Probably some kind of motto, as I found it in one ancient Abbey. By the way, the more accurate speeling is: "VTRVM VIS AETERNVM". AE is one letter. The first time I changed 3 of 4 V's in U. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6702 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes  Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 4 of 12 07 March 2008 at 12:56pm | IP Logged | ||
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I put the phrase into Google to see some examples, but only found "utrum vis" in constructions with some kind of dual alternative (Seneca: "Utrum vis longum esse morbum an concitatum et brevem?" - what is preferable - (for) the death to be lengty or violent and brief?"). "Vis" in this context does not mean "force", but maybe "impact, meaning". So why isn't there an alternative here? My guess - but I'm not a specialist - is that the meaning is something "In any case, (this thing is) forever", referring to the building on which you saw the phrase.
(edited) EDIT: as suggested by mattewos24R16 "vis" should probably be seen as a form of "velle" Edited by Iversen on 16 August 2010 at 8:32pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| mattewos24R16 Pentaglot Newbie Italy Joined 6553 days ago 28 posts - 29 votes Speaks: Italian*, Modern Hebrew, EnglishC2, German, Arabic (classical) | Message 5 of 12 08 March 2008 at 12:57pm | IP Logged | ||
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I must admit that the phrase is rather puzzling to me. I think that the word "vis" cannot be taken as "force", "strength" and the like and then the adjective "aeternum" as referring to it since "aeternum" is neuter whereas the noun is feminine (one should find "vis aeterna" for instance). I'd rather think "vis" is simply the second singular person of "velle" (as in the case of the text taken from Seneca). "Utrum" means "either of the two" or "whether" pointing to an alternative, therefore something is missing or implied (maybe the verb to be "esse"?). Generally with a motto one easily gets confused unless a sort of key is provide to solve the enigma.
edit: one more question: are you sure of the spelling? could it have been "utrumvis aeternum", that wouldn't change a lot the direction of our inquiry but anyways... Valete! Edited by mattewos24R16 on 08 March 2008 at 1:08pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Eugene Newbie Russian Federation Joined 6185 days ago 5 posts - 5 votes | Message 6 of 12 10 March 2008 at 11:04am | IP Logged | ||
You can see for yourself :) Look here: http://eugene20.gorodok.net/Utrum.jpg 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tvangeste Diglot Newbie Canada a5web.com Joined 5218 days ago 1 posts - 1 votes Speaks: Russian*, English | Message 7 of 12 11 August 2010 at 8:44pm | IP Logged | ||
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Stumbled upon your forum while searching for the very same phrase (ruins of an ancient castle in Belgium) so here is my bit to the line of guesswork:
Utrum - WHETHER Vis - WISH (second-person singular present active indicative of volÅ.) Aeternum - Eternity thus: WHETHER I WISH ETERNITY (a sort of doubt IMO) Edited by tvangeste on 11 August 2010 at 9:47pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| simonov Senior Member Portugal Joined 5588 days ago 222 posts - 438 votes Speaks: English | Message 8 of 12 12 August 2010 at 10:41am | IP Logged | ||
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utrum can also be used as a simple question particle, with the implied meaning of "by chance, maybe, would you?"
vis = you want (2nd person singular of velle) aeternum = that which is eternal, in which case the sentence would mean: Do you wish for eternity? [if so, follow me, come to church, be a good Christian....] 1 person has voted this message useful |
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