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Japanese Language Proficiency Test - JLPT | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Gokigen Gokigen Triglot Newbie Brazil Joined 5265 days ago 1 posts - 2 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Mandarin, German Studies: Japanese, English | Message 1 of 10 20 July 2010 at 1:10am | IP Logged | ||
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Of course, I know that JLPT is a standardized criterion-referenced test to evaluate and certify the Japanese language proficiency of non-native speakers. However, I would like to know how difficult the test is for native people.
The JPLT is little strange for me, because I have taken some proficienct test in other languages that evaluated me in writing(some short or long texts) and speaking skills. Does anybody know why the japanese ministry of education don’t add those tests? According to some websites related to JLPT, “Level 1 The examinee has mastered grammar to a high level, knows around 2,000 kanji and 10,000 words, and has an integrated command of the language sufficient for life in Japanese society. This level is normally reached after studying Japanese for around 900 hours.”. I wonder if 10.000 words is low to an advanced Japanese student. What do you think about that? Is the quantity considerable? 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6767 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes  Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 2 of 10 20 July 2010 at 3:17am | IP Logged | ||
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I think you probably need to know around 10,000 words to call yourself advanced, although full fluency requires
more. The JLPT is pretty hard. While the lack of any production (speaking or writing) component is a common criticism, I think the test reflects the standard Japanese educational approach to languages (for better or worse) and is also designed to be machine-scorable. Certainly, most Westerners are not going to learn 2,000 kanji without having an overall grasp of Japanese writing and conversation. It's mainly the Chinese test-takers who can get away with scoring highly in spite of poor speaking skills. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Kazen Diglot Groupie Japan japanese-me.com Joined 5327 days ago 96 posts - 133 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese | Message 3 of 10 20 July 2010 at 12:21pm | IP Logged | ||
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As for the test's difficulty for native speakers - my boyfriend is a college-educated native that hated Japanese in high school. Whenever I show him an 1kyuu question (lately grammar) the convo goes like this:
Me: What's the right answer? Him: Wow, this is hard, it's number 2. So wow, this is hard/nit-picky for a second language learner, but native speakers get it right away. I've yet to stump him, or even come close. :P I've heard that high school students would have little trouble passing 1kyuu, and that middle schoolers might have a shot if they know enough kanji. I don't know how true that is though. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Lucky Charms Diglot Senior Member Japan lapacifica.net Joined 6948 days ago 752 posts - 1711 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: German, Spanish | Message 4 of 10 21 July 2010 at 1:29am | IP Logged | ||
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I was able to pass the old 2kyuu in my last year of the Japanese program at my university. At that time I'd say I had intermediate proficiency.
I just sat the N1 a few weeks ago, which was after a year of graduation and self-study. I think my current level is 'basic fluency', and I found the test challenging but doable. Maybe you can say it tests around the B2/C1 level, but for passive skills only? Also, the kanji you have to learn is the same number expected of a high school graduate, so I guess you could say that an 'N1 level speaker' is someone who can get around in the language, but is not at the same level as an educated speaker (e.g. would struggle taking a university course in the language). Basically, the point of the 1kyuu certification (and rarely, the 2kyuu as well - the rest are useless) is to show employers, 'this person understands enough Japanese to be able to work in Japan'. The JLPT doesn't test more advanced skills than that, and far from indicates being on equal terms with a native speaker. EDIT: By the way, welcome to the forums! Edited by Lucky Charms on 21 July 2010 at 1:29am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ericspinelli Diglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5782 days ago 249 posts - 493 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Korean, Italian | Message 5 of 10 21 July 2010 at 8:15am | IP Logged | ||
I think many advanced learners of Japanese, including people such as myself who have passed it, consider the JLPT to be a pretty poor test. Apparently the testing organization listened (or thought so too) and revised the test. I haven't and won't take the new format, so I'm not sure how well it accomplished its goals but the goals themselves seemed a step in the right direction.
I would refine that and say JLPT1 shows, "This person understands enough Japanese to be interviewed in Japan." It's certainly possible to get a job without having passed the test but it seems many use the test as a simple, no-cost way to screen applicants. When I got hired, I had taken (and passed) the JLPT1 but results had not been released yet. Depending on the timing, my resume read "Studying for JLPT1, <date>", "Registered for JLPT1, <date>", or "Sat JLPT1, <date>. Results pending." If your goal is working in Japanese, there is the Business Japanese Test (BJT). It is the only other Japanese test for non-native speakers backed/approved by a government organization (previously JETRO, though now run by the folks at 漢検/KanKen). In the past, those scoring high enough could take an optional oral communication test but it looks like that option was discontinued when the test moved to KanKen. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Lucky Charms Diglot Senior Member Japan lapacifica.net Joined 6948 days ago 752 posts - 1711 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: German, Spanish | Message 6 of 10 21 July 2010 at 8:40am | IP Logged | ||
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I wasn't expecting much with regards to the new format, but I actually ended up being surprised by what an improvement it was. The listening sections presented very natural spoken Japanese in a wide range of situations (probably more casual situations than the newscaster format I had come to expect). The questions they asked in the listening sections were more practical than before, too - 'what's the most appropriate response?' or 'what's the first thing she needs to do now?' seem to be the focus rather than nitpicky details like 'how much does it cost after the discount?' or 'which of the following pictures is the man describing?' which I remember from the old 2kyuu. And the non-listening section was mainly reading comprehension and choosing the correct usage/context for certain kanji/grammar/vocab. It's still not perfect by any means, but compared to the old format, I felt that the new format really tested your knowledge of the language rather than how much you sat down and studied from books.
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| starst Triglot Senior Member China Joined 5513 days ago 113 posts - 133 votes Speaks: Mandarin*, Japanese, EnglishC2 Studies: FrenchC1, German, Norwegian | Message 7 of 10 21 July 2010 at 8:59am | IP Logged | ||
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According to my native speaker friends, middle school students should be able to pass it without much difficulties. He said that they might not be able to obtain a 400/400 easily, but 280/400 would be just a piece of cake.
I took the last round old format JLPT Lv1 last year, and the mock test of N1 as well. My scores were almost the same just-pass, N1's slightly higher if I remember correctly. I doubt if I have mastered 10000 words, but I can deal with almost everything in daily life and work in Japanese. I agree with Lucky charms, it's doable for B2 level learners. However, passing it easily probably requires a C1/2 level. Native fluency is still much way further than C2 for sure. By the way, what do you guys think about other tests? Is BJT widely recognized and considered as a higher level of proficiency? How about the test for native speakers? Will it be useful if I have a certification of 漢検/KanKen Lv3/4? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ericspinelli Diglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5782 days ago 249 posts - 493 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Korean, Italian | Message 8 of 10 22 July 2010 at 3:54am | IP Logged | ||
If you do a search in Japanese regarding the 漢検 you can find native speakers' opinions on what level, if any, is a plus when applying for jobs. I believe level 3 and above require ID and are the only levels considered serious, but even then it doesn't always seem to be a plus. Even as a non-native speaker, I don't think you want to deviate much from what native speakers do. If you're taking tests on the same level, be prepared to be judged on the same level. There is the 日本語検定, a general Japanese language test for natives, as well. I know nothing about it and it doesn't get talked about often and I probably wouldn't recommend taking it, but it's out there if you want to research it. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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