36 messages over 5 pages: 1 2 3 4 5
Smart
Tetraglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5339 days ago
352 posts - 398 votes 
Speaks: Spanish, English*, Latin, French
Studies: German
| Message 33 of 36 21 April 2010 at 1:58am | IP Logged |
Solfrid Cristin wrote:
Smart wrote:
Solfrid Cristin wrote:
It seems logical to me to differenciate between "native language" and "native fluency". I am born in Norway in a Norwegian family, but lived alone for 6 months in a Spanish family in Andalucía when I was 11, and for a year in a French family in Orleans when I was 14.
After my stay in Spain, Spaniards who heard me speak Spanish, would refuse to believe I was not Spanish, in spite of my blonde hair and my blue eyes. I would even speak more grammatically correct then my Spanish friends. That does however not make Spanish my native language, but I speak it "with "native fluency". In France I was also subject to a total immersion in the extreme, and was absolutely fluent in French without any trace of an accent - but it is still not a native language.(Particularly because a lot has been forgotten over the years).
I have worked with English on a daily basis my entire life, and I have read English texts since the age of 10. I do not really care if I read English or Norwegian. That still does nok make it my native language.
Is it however that important to use that particular label? In my book, if you are a native speaker, you have learned the language from a very early age. To be a native speaker doesn't actually really mean that you have studied the language. It must be something that has come to you naturally, without any effort on your side. I can understand that you can have 2-3 native languages if you have grown up in a family where more that one language is spoken, or if you have two languages in your family, and you have learned the third language in the kindergarden.
I find it puzzling how anyone can claim to have a dead language like Latin, or a constructed language like Esperanto as their mother tongue. Shouldn't it really be even more prestigious to have acquired native fluency, without being a native speaker? |
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I grew up from age 1 hearing French, Spanish, Italian.[of course English as well] My first word was French, not English. Yet I do not claim native fluency in that language since I did not learn it when I was young. I learned Spanish over time, like any native speaker would, from about the age of 3 to around the age of 8. I was fluent at 8, though I did not reach what would be called native fluency until 11. Which is the age almost all Spanish natives become fluent at (English - 12, Polish - 16, etc). I grew up with the language, albeit not as much as English however Spanish was a dominant language in my life from the first time i could speak.
I also grew up with only my mother, therefore, it is not fair to say "oh you're parents didn't teach you it" because I do not have parents to do so. I had a mom who I saw maybe 2-3 hours a day.
Therefore, I am bilingual and native in both.
By the way, to address the last thing you wrote, no one claims Latin as their mother tongue (afaik), and Esperanto is the mother tongue of over 2500 people. (according to wiki) |
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You are right, there is noone here who claims to have Latin as their native language, I used a different dead language in order not to risk offending anyone, particularly since I am new to the forum, and have been so excited at finding it that I've been hyper active the last couple of days. I found someone on the list who claims 6 native languages, which are geographically very dispersed, one of them being ancient Greek. That makes me think that we must have very different definitions of "native language" unless you are a 2000 years old vampire, and was raised in ancient Greece. Now I have no problem believing that with studies you can be absolutely fluent in anywhere between 6 to 25 languages. It is very rare, but possible. Having 6 native languages, that makes me curious. I do not say it is impossible, because I actually do know of a similar case, but I would be very interested in hearing how such conditions came to be. That must be one hell of a family history. |
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Well you know that person is lying lol.
1 person has voted this message useful
| Solfrid Cristin
Heptaglot
Winner TAC 2011 & 2012
Senior Member
Norway
Joined 5334 days ago
4143 posts - 8864 votes
Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian
Studies: Russian
| Message 34 of 36 22 April 2010 at 11:29am | IP Logged |
Smart wrote:
Solfrid Cristin wrote:
Smart wrote:
Solfrid Cristin wrote:
It seems logical to me to differenciate between "native language" and "native fluency". I am born in Norway in a Norwegian family, but lived alone for 6 months in a Spanish family in Andalucía when I was 11, and for a year in a French family in Orleans when I was 14.
After my stay in Spain, Spaniards who heard me speak Spanish, would refuse to believe I was not Spanish, in spite of my blonde hair and my blue eyes. I would even speak more grammatically correct then my Spanish friends. That does however not make Spanish my native language, but I speak it "with "native fluency". In France I was also subject to a total immersion in the extreme, and was absolutely fluent in French without any trace of an accent - but it is still not a native language.(Particularly because a lot has been forgotten over the years).
I have worked with English on a daily basis my entire life, and I have read English texts since the age of 10. I do not really care if I read English or Norwegian. That still does nok make it my native language.
Is it however that important to use that particular label? In my book, if you are a native speaker, you have learned the language from a very early age. To be a native speaker doesn't actually really mean that you have studied the language. It must be something that has come to you naturally, without any effort on your side. I can understand that you can have 2-3 native languages if you have grown up in a family where more that one language is spoken, or if you have two languages in your family, and you have learned the third language in the kindergarden.
I find it puzzling how anyone can claim to have a dead language like Latin, or a constructed language like Esperanto as their mother tongue. Shouldn't it really be even more prestigious to have acquired native fluency, without being a native speaker? |
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I grew up from age 1 hearing French, Spanish, Italian.[of course English as well] My first word was French, not English. Yet I do not claim native fluency in that language since I did not learn it when I was young. I learned Spanish over time, like any native speaker would, from about the age of 3 to around the age of 8. I was fluent at 8, though I did not reach what would be called native fluency until 11. Which is the age almost all Spanish natives become fluent at (English - 12, Polish - 16, etc). I grew up with the language, albeit not as much as English however Spanish was a dominant language in my life from the first time i could speak.
I also grew up with only my mother, therefore, it is not fair to say "oh you're parents didn't teach you it" because I do not have parents to do so. I had a mom who I saw maybe 2-3 hours a day.
Therefore, I am bilingual and native in both.
By the way, to address the last thing you wrote, no one claims Latin as their mother tongue (afaik), and Esperanto is the mother tongue of over 2500 people. (according to wiki) |
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You are right, there is noone here who claims to have Latin as their native language, I used a different dead language in order not to risk offending anyone, particularly since I am new to the forum, and have been so excited at finding it that I've been hyper active the last couple of days. I found someone on the list who claims 6 native languages, which are geographically very dispersed, one of them being ancient Greek. That makes me think that we must have very different definitions of "native language" unless you are a 2000 years old vampire, and was raised in ancient Greece. Now I have no problem believing that with studies you can be absolutely fluent in anywhere between 6 to 25 languages. It is very rare, but possible. Having 6 native languages, that makes me curious. I do not say it is impossible, because I actually do know of a similar case, but I would be very interested in hearing how such conditions came to be. That must be one hell of a family history. |
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Well you know that person is lying lol. |
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Well, I will not accuse anyone of lying, I know someone in whose family they spoke Ladino (Spanish spoken by Jews in the 15th century), Greek, Italian, Arabic, French and Hebrew, and who would fit my definition of a native language (a language that you learn at home, and not by going to school). But when you see someone who claims Belarusian*, Bulgarian*, Afrikaans*, Albanian*, Breton*, and Ancient Greek* as their mother tongue, then it would really take a remarkable family story to explain that, and I would very much like to hear that story. Belarusian, Albanian and Bulgarian I could easily belive, becuase of the geographical proximity, but when you throw in Breton, Afrikaans and Ancient Greek it gets complicated.
1 person has voted this message useful
| ellasevia
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2011
Senior Member
Germany
Joined 6142 days ago
2150 posts - 3229 votes
Speaks: English*, German, Croatian, Greek, French, Spanish, Russian, Swedish, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian
Studies: Catalan, Persian, Mandarin, Japanese, Romanian, Ukrainian
| Message 35 of 36 22 April 2010 at 2:35pm | IP Logged |
Solfrid Cristin wrote:
Smart wrote:
Solfrid Cristin wrote:
Smart wrote:
Solfrid Cristin wrote:
It seems logical to me to differenciate between "native language" and "native fluency". I am born in Norway in a Norwegian family, but lived alone for 6 months in a Spanish family in Andalucía when I was 11, and for a year in a French family in Orleans when I was 14.
After my stay in Spain, Spaniards who heard me speak Spanish, would refuse to believe I was not Spanish, in spite of my blonde hair and my blue eyes. I would even speak more grammatically correct then my Spanish friends. That does however not make Spanish my native language, but I speak it "with "native fluency". In France I was also subject to a total immersion in the extreme, and was absolutely fluent in French without any trace of an accent - but it is still not a native language.(Particularly because a lot has been forgotten over the years).
I have worked with English on a daily basis my entire life, and I have read English texts since the age of 10. I do not really care if I read English or Norwegian. That still does nok make it my native language.
Is it however that important to use that particular label? In my book, if you are a native speaker, you have learned the language from a very early age. To be a native speaker doesn't actually really mean that you have studied the language. It must be something that has come to you naturally, without any effort on your side. I can understand that you can have 2-3 native languages if you have grown up in a family where more that one language is spoken, or if you have two languages in your family, and you have learned the third language in the kindergarden.
I find it puzzling how anyone can claim to have a dead language like Latin, or a constructed language like Esperanto as their mother tongue. Shouldn't it really be even more prestigious to have acquired native fluency, without being a native speaker? |
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|
I grew up from age 1 hearing French, Spanish, Italian.[of course English as well] My first word was French, not English. Yet I do not claim native fluency in that language since I did not learn it when I was young. I learned Spanish over time, like any native speaker would, from about the age of 3 to around the age of 8. I was fluent at 8, though I did not reach what would be called native fluency until 11. Which is the age almost all Spanish natives become fluent at (English - 12, Polish - 16, etc). I grew up with the language, albeit not as much as English however Spanish was a dominant language in my life from the first time i could speak.
I also grew up with only my mother, therefore, it is not fair to say "oh you're parents didn't teach you it" because I do not have parents to do so. I had a mom who I saw maybe 2-3 hours a day.
Therefore, I am bilingual and native in both.
By the way, to address the last thing you wrote, no one claims Latin as their mother tongue (afaik), and Esperanto is the mother tongue of over 2500 people. (according to wiki) |
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|
You are right, there is noone here who claims to have Latin as their native language, I used a different dead language in order not to risk offending anyone, particularly since I am new to the forum, and have been so excited at finding it that I've been hyper active the last couple of days. I found someone on the list who claims 6 native languages, which are geographically very dispersed, one of them being ancient Greek. That makes me think that we must have very different definitions of "native language" unless you are a 2000 years old vampire, and was raised in ancient Greece. Now I have no problem believing that with studies you can be absolutely fluent in anywhere between 6 to 25 languages. It is very rare, but possible. Having 6 native languages, that makes me curious. I do not say it is impossible, because I actually do know of a similar case, but I would be very interested in hearing how such conditions came to be. That must be one hell of a family history. |
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Well you know that person is lying lol. |
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Well, I will not accuse anyone of lying, I know someone in whose family they spoke Ladino (Spanish spoken by Jews in the 15th century), Greek, Italian, Arabic, French and Hebrew, and who would fit my definition of a native language (a language that you learn at home, and not by going to school). But when you see someone who claims Belarusian*, Bulgarian*, Afrikaans*, Albanian*, Breton*, and Ancient Greek* as their mother tongue, then it would really take a remarkable family story to explain that, and I would very much like to hear that story. Belarusian, Albanian and Bulgarian I could easily belive, becuase of the geographical proximity, but when you throw in Breton, Afrikaans and Ancient Greek it gets complicated. |
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Especially the Ancient Greek.
1 person has voted this message useful
| katilica
Bilingual Diglot
Groupie
United States
Joined 5471 days ago
70 posts - 109 votes
Speaks: English*, Spanish*
Studies: French, Catalan
| Message 36 of 36 27 April 2010 at 11:33am | IP Logged |
Well native and bilingual are two different things (as many lovely people before me mentioned) even if you
were taught Spanish at an early age, were you constantly immersed in it? Or did you just take lessons? I
didn't receive an 'all English' education until third grade yet I still consider myself an English native due to
the fact that I knew English before third grade. There was a black boy at my school ( he wasn't Hispanic)
and he knew Spanish so well and had a native accent due to the fact that the area of San Diego I lived in
was mostly Hispanic. No one in his family knew Spanish but he was sorrounded by the language since
early childhood and it was what he heard the most in school. Anyway, as others have said before me, it's
really not a big deal but if it bothers you, just take every detail into account and decide for yourself. I also
hate people who know 5 phrases in a language and claim fluency or go around telling everyone to take
Spanish because it is so easy yet they cannot utter a gramatically correct sentence after 4 years. Sorry if I
have mistakes but writing on a phone is a bit difficult and I tend to phrase my words in an awkward manner
when I'm in this type of situation.
1 person has voted this message useful
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