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12 Topics to Fluency | ||
Tags: Fluency | Learning Strategy | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6550 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 25 of 39 18 February 2007 at 8:47pm | IP Logged | ||
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Sorry, I didn't read the whole post. What about sex, making out, etc? I always feel foolish when I get to that point and don't even know the most basic expressions.
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| sumabeast Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6926 days ago 212 posts - 220 votes Speaks: English*, Arabic (Written) | Message 26 of 39 19 February 2007 at 10:12am | IP Logged | ||
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I see many immigrants here in the US, many of whom after years of living and working here get along just fine, and their English is fluent. However if they had to discuss some of the tpics suggested, such as Fashion, Cuisine, Nature, Politics, they could not do so as effortlessly and with such nuance and vocab as a native speaker.
But they could certainly follow 100% (or near that) of a conversation or speech on these subjects. So should we consider a person's fluency solely based upon his/her ability to produce speech? what about the listening comprehension side? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| solidsnake Diglot Senior Member China Joined 7041 days ago 469 posts - 488 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin | Message 27 of 39 22 February 2007 at 3:28pm | IP Logged | ||
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the above topics (including the sex and making out) I would list under what makes one functional not necessarily fluent. What would render one truly advanced in my eyes would be the art of punning and subtly manipulating language and idioms to express shades of nuance and humor.
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| Jerrod Senior Member United States Joined 6503 days ago 168 posts - 176 votes Studies: Russian, Spanish | Message 28 of 39 26 February 2007 at 3:14am | IP Logged | ||
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I agree with solidsnake that these topics would make you functional but no where close to fluent.
Then again, I am reminded of the time I was on a plane from Tampa to Cincinnati and this buisnessman and young man sat in front of me. The young man asked where the guy was from, he said Richmond, and the young man asked where that was. So maybe one really only needs to know some very basic things to be fluent. Also here in Russia I have had conversations with people who knew very little about their own history. To me, however, fluent means what solidsnake said. In other words, fluent, in my opinion, could be someone who could pass the last year of high school in the target language. Or at least something along that line. My topics (some are Russian specific): 1. Health, describe in complete detail problems, i.e. there is a deep stabbing pain under my left nipple, my arm is tingling, and I can not feel my fingers. 2. Travel, be able to travel around the country and cities without problems. I don't just mean getting by, that can be done, but truely understanding whats going on. Order hotels. 3. Bribing, here in Russian you can bribe anyone to do about anything. I was at a house of rest, I gave the housekeeper a box of tea and chocolate (4$) and I got to stay another night with breakfest! 4. Haggling, here in Russia, a foreigner is charged 2 to 3 times more than a Russian. Going to the market and being able to debate and get lower prices. Putting up basic arguments, etc.. 5. Culture, knowing to take an odd number of flowers to a person, holidays and why they exist, various traditions from around your country. 6. Everyday life issues i.e. calling the plumper (haggling) and describing the problem. If, say the water heater breaks, calling the state service, and getting (bribing) the workers to fix it. 1-6 are about the most important I can think of that you need to know to get by without any real issues. To be considered educated I think you need to know the following: 7. History In order to follow the news, you really need to know some basic history of the country, major places. You don't need to know when, say, the first All Russian Congress of Workers and Soldiers Deputies met. 8. Again, in order to follow the news, you need geography. This would include places, weather, etc.. 9. Politics, yes you need it too for the news. traditions, institutions, etc.. 10. Literature. This may only apply to Russian. I hesitated to post this, but as I am writing this, Putin is giving a speech and guess who he quoted? Pushkin. Pushkin is like a god here. Everyone can quote his stories and poems. If you can randomly quote Pushkin you are probably at the fluent stage. Knowing basic literature is part of being educated. 11. Someone mentioned being able to sell yourself and get a job. I will include this, but I think that is at a very advanced stage. Most people will probably have a job at a western firm and then move here. Maybe it would be better to say, be able to hold a 30 minute conversation on your current job or of one topic of interest. 12. Pop culture, I don't like this, but I am at a loss as to what else to put :), this is age specific, but at least you could speak to people your age. So in my opinion, once you have a 10,000 word vocabulary, can do all basic things from a two year couse with out thinking, moving on to this would be great. All of those topics are for basic functionality and would put you nowhere near fluency. You can not do some audio course and then read a text book and get a very basic fluency. It just won't happen. Jerrod 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| PETE Triglot Groupie United States Joined 6483 days ago 73 posts - 85 votes Speaks: English*, German, Russian Studies: Spanish | Message 29 of 39 05 March 2007 at 11:38pm | IP Logged | ||
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How can you be considered fully fluent if you cannot discuss politics and the differences, both great and nuanced between the varying political ideologies?
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 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6909 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 30 of 39 06 March 2007 at 5:24am | IP Logged | ||
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In that case I'm not fluent even in my native tongue... ;)
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| patuco Diglot Moderator Gibraltar Joined 7015 days ago 3795 posts - 4268 votes Speaks: Spanish, English* Personal Language Map | Message 31 of 39 06 March 2007 at 6:30am | IP Logged | ||
I know quite a few people who are fluent in their mother tongues but cannot discuss politics since they lack education rather than vocabulary. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6597 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 32 of 39 07 March 2007 at 12:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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