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Studying a language to native fluency | ||
Tags: Native Fluency | Fluency | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| numerodix Trilingual Hexaglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 6787 days ago 856 posts - 1226 votes  Speaks: EnglishC2*, Norwegian*, Polish*, Italian, Dutch, French Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin | Message 73 of 96 16 October 2009 at 4:03pm | IP Logged | ||
What if you could hypnotize her into thinking she was pregnant and find out right away! Edited by numerodix on 16 October 2009 at 4:04pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| patuco Diglot Moderator Gibraltar Joined 7019 days ago 3795 posts - 4268 votes Speaks: Spanish, English* Personal Language Map | Message 74 of 96 17 October 2009 at 1:32am | IP Logged | ||
It's probably the unbelievable pain* which could perhaps be achieved through torturing the poor spy instead (assuming said spy is female). * my wife says that it's unlike anything she's ever experienced before - I'm glad I never have to go through it! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Sennin Senior Member Bulgaria Joined 6038 days ago 1457 posts - 1759 votes 5 sounds | Message 75 of 96 17 October 2009 at 2:24am | IP Logged | ||
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Many interesting suggestions, haha...
I suppose it's not possible to suppress the native language in an extreme situation (i.e. giving birth, being hypnotized or tortured ^_^) even if native-like fluency is an achievable goal. Edited by Sennin on 17 October 2009 at 2:31am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| marvolo Tetraglot Newbie Finland Joined 5710 days ago 20 posts - 30 votes Speaks: Finnish*, French, English, Spanish | Message 76 of 96 23 October 2009 at 11:54am | IP Logged | ||
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I have 2 examples that I think are rather interesting.
I have a bilingual friend (English & Finnish). Her parents are Finnish, and that's the language that's been always used at home. But they lived in States till she was 14 or 15, then moved in Finland. She claims that her English is better than her Finnish because of friends and school etc. When I first got to know her I didn't know that her "better language" was English. I took her as a native and didn't notice any flaws or errors in her speak. Now that I _know_ her Finnish isn't perfect I've started to notice same strange choises of words and things like that. So what we know about the person effects on our judgments. Does she still have "native fluency" in Finnish? We can also ask, if someone told (lied to) me that my monolingual Finnish friend isn't really Finnish, but has learned the language when he was older, would I take all his errors (that all native speakers do in some point) as a mark of him not being native? Probably. My other example is my phonetics teacher. His native language is English and he has learned Finnish at teen/adult age (around 20 I think). The only hint that he wasn't Finnish was his name. Also in this case I didn't know he wasn't at least bilingual from the childhood. After I've heared his story, I've been very attentive in our classes. And I _never_ notice any flaws in his Finnish. I mean he makes less errors in Finnish than Finnish people. He makes non. Is that even natural or native anymore? I just wanted to share this with you. Cheers! Edited by marvolo on 23 October 2009 at 11:59am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6772 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 77 of 96 23 October 2009 at 12:35pm | IP Logged | ||
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Your phonetics teacher is amazing, Marvolo, and proof that you can reach a level indistinguishable from native
if you work at it enough, although extremely few people do. My German teacher at university was the same way. He learned English and French (as an adult) to an impeccable level superior to most native speakers. (He spoke a few other languages too.) However, his standards were extremely high. Your bilingual friend sounds like she fell through one of those "linguistic cracks" some people encounter when brought up in several environments. My mom's probably in a similar boat. She grew up speaking German at home and began learning English in school (in Canada). Even though German is her first language and ought to be her best, she doesn't have the same handle on nuances of grammar or vocabulary a native speaker in Germany would have. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Envinyatar Diglot Senior Member Guatemala Joined 5540 days ago 147 posts - 240 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: Modern Hebrew | Message 78 of 96 23 October 2009 at 6:01pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks for sharing Marvolo. I've been fed by false information about being perfect in other languages. I'll try to be like your phonetics teacher!
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| janababe Triglot Senior Member Sweden Joined 5518 days ago 102 posts - 115 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, German | Message 80 of 96 23 October 2009 at 7:40pm | IP Logged | ||
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Well I don't know about that, Buttons. I don't think you can have a level of English that is better than the native English people. There's educated language and informal language, but a better level than the natives doesn't exist in my book.
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