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Studying a language to native fluency | ||
Tags: Native Fluency | Fluency | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| datsunking1 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5589 days ago 1014 posts - 1533 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German, Russian, Dutch, French | Message 25 of 96 27 September 2009 at 4:07am | IP Logged | |||||
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Maybe I went a little too far with the native, but I mean understanding everything spoken and written (I'm not talking advanced medical documents, just papers, books, etc), radio, music, tv, commercials, tv shows. everything. Enough so I would not sit there like "Uhhhhhhh....."
My guess would be immersion, I'm honestly going for complete fluency in German and Spanish so that I am able to teach it to my children when they are young. (HEAD START!) I could easily go to school and be taught in Spanish. I wouldn't consider myself at native fluency though, and I wish that my German was the same. Once again, If I'm going to study a language, I want to KNOW it. Slang, idioms, the works. The way I look at it, I can probably speak Spanish like a 5th grader. not that advanced as compared to an educated adult, but I can easily talk in many situations etc. My German = Kindergartener. lol :) -Jordan 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Levi Pentaglot Senior Member United States Joined 5571 days ago 2268 posts - 3328 votes Speaks: English*, French, Esperanto, German, Spanish Studies: Russian, Dutch, Portuguese, Mandarin, Japanese, Italian | Message 26 of 96 27 September 2009 at 4:34am | IP Logged | |||||
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Well, the only thing German first-graders have over you is years of exposure to the
language. You can do it too. With enough exposure to German and Spanish every day, enough time and effort put into studying the material, and a good attitude, you can definitely get to the point where you understand pretty much everything you hear and read in both languages. But to get there you have to content yourself with partial victories. You have to enjoy being able to understand the bits and pieces that you do, rather than having the language be complete gibberish. Every day you will understand a little bit more, and without even realizing it, one day you will find yourself following texts and conversations with ease. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| LatinoBoy84 Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5579 days ago 443 posts - 603 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish*, French Studies: Russian, Portuguese, Latvian | Message 27 of 96 27 September 2009 at 5:24am | IP Logged | |||||
I started 2/1/2009, I have had been exposed to the language before a little bit (I took French 101 as an Undergraduate back in 2003). I never took learning French seriously though, until this year. I decided I was cheating myself not learning French, given the tremendous leverage that Spanish and English give me. My comprehension is near fluent, my spoken production is coming along nicely (though I openly admit I need more vocabulary). My weakest skill at the moment is written French, though I'm starting to get a feel for the nuances of language production in written form. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| lachat Triglot Newbie Joined 5567 days ago 23 posts - 26 votes Speaks: English*, Dutch, French Studies: Italian | Message 28 of 96 27 September 2009 at 11:06am | IP Logged | |||||
Well when I first moved to Holland I could only speak basic Dutch. I had given up my home in England and was on a one way trip with enough money for 2 months. I was not able to find work with my level of Dutch at the time. So I stopped talking English other than to my parents and some to my girlfriend only watched and listen to Dutch programmes and radio. I was studying Dutch severall hours a day. As well as listening to Dutch while I was sleeping. My Dutch got very good very quickly and I found work. I have been living in Holland for over 5 years now. I do talk English a lot to my girlfriend, Friends and family in the UK. I know other English people who have nearlly lost all there English so much so they can only properly communicate in Dutch. I have had proberly less exposure to English than most Dutch people because I mostly watch French and Dutch films. Most Dutch people watch a lot of Americain programmes. Edited by lachat on 27 September 2009 at 11:09am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| datsunking1 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5589 days ago 1014 posts - 1533 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German, Russian, Dutch, French | Message 29 of 96 27 September 2009 at 3:07pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I found a 1950's "Berlitz Self-Teacher: German" in my local library, the content it has is absolutely amazing. I'm going to start when I get back from work today and do the first few lessons. I'm doing Spanish right now as I type :D
Thanks for your help guys. I really only have 3-4 languages as my goal, I'd rather understand those fully than try to study 20 different dilects and memorize them all lol 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| jtmc18 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7249 days ago 119 posts - 140 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish | Message 30 of 96 27 September 2009 at 4:25pm | IP Logged | |||||
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After four years of rather consistent study and exposure to Spanish, I have also been asking myself whether native proficiency is possible. I fully agree that one has to accept partial victories along the way. I am watching a Mexican telenovela and there are many parts that I understand word-for-word, some parts that I grasp because of the context but couldn’t break down into specific words and then there are occasional parts that, no matter how many times I rewind, I simply can not comprehend. Even so, I can follow the plot without difficulty whereas a couple years ago that alone would have been impossible.
After four trips abroad and some daily exposure to the language at home, where I have contact with a considerable number of Spanish-speakers, I still feel that it will be years before I can fool a native speaker into thinking that I’m a native. On that note, I have yet to meet any non-native speakers of English who can fool me for more than a few minutes of conversation, except for some who learned the language as children. Interestingly enough, I know dozens of non-native speakers of English here in the States, many of whom have been in this country for years, use English every day without hesitation and still can not hide the fact that English is not their first language. Yet some of them speak it so well that it really doesn’t matter and I would be content to speak Spanish at their level of English. I don’t know if native fluency for a foreigner is possible or not but I think one can achieve a close approximation, and in any case even native speakers struggle to understand each other every once in a while. The only thing that I am unsure of is how long it takes- I have met some non-native speakers of English with a strong command of the language after only four or five years of exposure, whereas others have been in this country for twenty years and can barely sustain a conversation. I imagine that the time to reach near-native proficiency can only be measured in years. I will consider myself close when I can understand every word of that novela without rewinding and converse as spontaneously as the actors do. Maybe four more years? Edited by jtmc18 on 27 September 2009 at 4:45pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| lenya Diglot Newbie UkraineRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5559 days ago 15 posts - 19 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: French, German | Message 31 of 96 27 September 2009 at 8:32pm | IP Logged | |||||
I think if it were the only post in this thread it would be more than enough. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Sennin Senior Member Bulgaria Joined 6038 days ago 1457 posts - 1759 votes 5 sounds | Message 32 of 96 27 September 2009 at 9:45pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I don't agree with Thatzright's quote and I can give two counter examples based on the abilities of people I know. The first one is a French teacher at Institut Français de Sofia who is married to a Bulgarian and speaks the language perfectly. The second one, as I have mentioned on previous occasions, is a Turkish girl that I mistook for a Bulgarian language teacher whereas in reality she was a language student.
These people were pretty native-like in my opinion. I would not hesitate to call them native speakers even though they were not born and nurtured with the language. On the other hand, there are some individuals who still make trivial mistakes after decades of exposure to the language. Go figure. Iversen is an amazing polyglot and it is perhaps exactly the fact that he is a polyglot that makes native fluency such an elusive goal. I am sure if he chooses to focus only on a few out of his many languages he will be able to achieve it. He's also rather humble in expressing opinions about himself so I'd avoid taking his words at face value ^_^. Edited by Sennin on 27 September 2009 at 9:56pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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