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American Language teaching is horrible. | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| hvorki_ne Groupie Joined 5386 days ago 72 posts - 79 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Icelandic | Message 17 of 44 10 April 2010 at 4:08am | IP Logged | ||
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I believe it's true that all schools are bad for it- I've heard from people in a large variety of countries who had the experience of studying English for 8+ years without being able to string together a sentence properly. My partner took Japanese in school with a class of 3 people who wanted to learn and a very good teacher- and as a result progressed quickly. So you can get lucky, but most people don't have that happen. Especially with more popular languages. In most classes you'll get 20+ people, which means it's near impossible for the teacher to give each individual any real 1-on-1 time.
I also think that a lot of schools teach in a way that's easier for the teacher than the student. It's much easier for the teacher to test if you have memorized a list of vocabulary and some basic grammar than to test if the student truly understands how and when to use it. They also often skimp on pronunciation of sounds we don't have. In German, they never explained properly how to pronunce 'ch' or ü/ö. The teacher just said it once and expected us to know. American schools are also bad- but it has the added problem of having English as the native language. Native English speakers don't have the same pressure to learn a foreign language as non-english speakers. English is useful in most of the world these days- it's very difficult for a native English speaker to find a language that's as widely useful as English, and you can probably get by without anything else. Even if you move to a foreign country, I've heard of people who lived years in a country with another language and never learned 2 words of it, but were able to get by fine with English (although I'm sure learning the native language would have helped). Unless you have a reason to learn a language, many don't see the point, so they stop as soon as they meet the requirement (2 years). I don't know about university level- but at that level you're expected to reach intermediate level in a language after one year, so I'd hope it's better. Edited by hvorki_ne on 10 April 2010 at 4:11am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| ManicGenius Senior Member United States Joined 5481 days ago 288 posts - 420 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Esperanto, French, Japanese | Message 18 of 44 10 April 2010 at 4:14am | IP Logged | ||
It's because of this magical act signed by Lucif... I mean... bush the junior, called the No Child Left Behind Act. The idea was sort of good enough, try in some way to force schools to perform better or they get funding cut. Well... actually thats not really a good idea at all... The ramifications of that are still resonating here where schools are being closed simply because they have few students, and therefore aren't able to improve as vastly as the big schools. So on paper look as though they haven't made as much improvement and thus funding is cut. Instead what happened was every school across the nation lowered their standards so that they could continue to get funding, resulting a big pile of fail that has help attribute to the continued dumbing down of the youth. Couple that with an extreme inadequacy in teaching the hard sciences and you're left with kids who leave high school severely lacking in basic knowledge. Luckily I graduated at the beginning of that so I didn't really have to deal with lowered standards, though I weep for the current students education. Edited by ManicGenius on 10 April 2010 at 4:15am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| ManicGenius Senior Member United States Joined 5481 days ago 288 posts - 420 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Esperanto, French, Japanese | Message 19 of 44 10 April 2010 at 4:17am | IP Logged | ||
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Or to put it this way:
I run into high school cashiers constantly now that can't do basic math, and often screw up in giving me my change back. Debit cards are a wonderful thing, what with their forced computerized transactions, resulting in the correct amount charged to me and all. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| datsunking1 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5585 days ago 1014 posts - 1533 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German, Russian, Dutch, French | Message 20 of 44 10 April 2010 at 4:56am | IP Logged | ||
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Yeah I know what you mean. I always try to figure out the change in my head before it comes up on the register :D
American education is failing hard. I have a couple Russians in my school that are borderline genius in my opinion. They don't even try. The Italian girl says that "This is like a vacation." 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ManicGenius Senior Member United States Joined 5481 days ago 288 posts - 420 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Esperanto, French, Japanese | Message 21 of 44 10 April 2010 at 5:21am | IP Logged | ||
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Any foreign exchange student we ever had in high school just cruised through. Though at
the same time any student we sent somewhere didn't exactly have a tough time either. One went to Sweden, another to Thailand. Both came back without saying it was particularly hard, so I guess a lot is just perspective of the person. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5430 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 22 of 44 10 April 2010 at 6:53am | IP Logged | ||
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Since I live in Canada, I can't comment on the American school system, but I am quite familiar with the state of second language teaching in Canada in primary and secondary schools. I think it is very good for what it attempts to do. I emphasize that latter part because many people bash the school system ("Schools suck. I know people who have studied French for 8 years and can't say more than "bonjour"") but fail to realize that the school system doesn't really attempt to make people bilingual.
Wake up, everybody. Second language in the school system is an academic subject, just like math, chemistry, biology, geography, history, etc. Basically, there is a curriculum, a textbook and a series of tests. We teach math, but we don't expect high school graduates to be mathematicians. Most people pass the tests and promptly forget the content. How many people remember their high school math 5 years after graduation? Why should it be any different for foreign languages in high school? There is no difference. It's a subject like any other. Most people study to pass the test. Now, I recognize that certain schools, especially expensive private ones, do a better job than underfunded state schools. There are some great teachers out there who can convey their passion for a language. And some students take a liking to certain subjects. But, generally speaking, the stuff goes in one ear and comes out the other. In Canada, there are basically three ways non-French students are introduced to French: Immersion, as the term implies, means that everything is taught in French. Core French is basically around two hours a week. Extended or intensive French usually combines Core with subjects taught in French. For my Canadians readers, I apologize for the oversimplification. OK, here is the big question. What approach gives the best results in terms of actually ability to use the language? I'll count to ten. This is not rocket science. Why do parents line up very early in the morning to register their children in immersion classes? Because that is basically the best, if not the only, way for children to learn to speak the language. So, for those people who claim to learn more from Michel Thomas, Pimsleur, Rosetta Stone, Fluenz, FSI or whatever than from high school, I say you are probably right. But it's not a fair comparison. If you want to look at the state of the art of language teaching look at the language schools like Berlitz, Middlebury College, Harvard Summer school and many many others. Now we're talking turkey. You'll have to pay lots of money but you are nearly guaranteed to learn a lot. Edited by s_allard on 11 April 2010 at 8:35am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| delta910 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5875 days ago 267 posts - 313 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Dutch, German | Message 23 of 44 10 April 2010 at 7:20am | IP Logged | ||
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On some things I don't really think it is the education so much as it is the students attitude on learning overall. I
think that is what brings the educational system down. There are the kids that actually try and do well while there are the others who don't do much of anything at all and are demotivated that it brings the rest of us down. This is what is happening in my school. There are a lot of very smart kids in every class at the school actually and they take advantage of opportunities that come to them to get ahead but there seems as though there are a flood of kids who just don't care. Also, I tend to agree that the No Child Left Behind Act that is doing something that is possibly causing problems. I remember before it all that our school was doing just fine. When I got into high school, about the same time NCLB Act went in if not before, things started going down hill. Also there are some other politics in the state that I live in that need to change if things are to get better. I won't go into that. I can only speak for my school but we have some great teachers and the thing is is that kids don't put in the effort to learn or they just don't care at all. It's not always the teachers fault in my opinion. Of course, we do have a teacher or two who can't "connect" with the students at all and in turn, they seem to do a poor job at presenting the material. In fact, it's more of the student's fault. They are more worried about where the next party is rather than their grades and learning. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Johntm Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5422 days ago 616 posts - 725 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 24 of 44 10 April 2010 at 7:38am | IP Logged | ||
But it has helped me with Spanish :D I'm sure if I had taken Spanish, I'd hate the language, but I don't. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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