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How to get a native accent | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6011 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes  Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 33 of 47 14 April 2010 at 3:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
You've presented two possibilities: picking them up instinctively or being unable to pick them up instinctively. No amount of hoping, wishing or praying is going to turn the latter into the former, which is where conscious work comes in. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| ManicGenius Senior Member United States Joined 5481 days ago 288 posts - 420 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Esperanto, French, Japanese | Message 34 of 47 14 April 2010 at 4:18pm | IP Logged | |||||
I can do that, and I'm not a genius (despite my username, which is kind've an inside joke). It's the value of being the classclown as a child. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5381 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 35 of 47 14 April 2010 at 5:02pm | IP Logged | |||||
I meant to point out that the vast majority of people who use IPA use it for basic phonetic notation. We don't usually write every slight nuance such as the assimilation of n in "unfurl" or "ingest" in rapid speech. Another example is how the Japanese a is different in chigAu vs. chigAimasu. I've yet to find this distinction noted in IPA. Which brings the question -- if you do not instinctively notice the subtlity, and this kind of subtle nuance is not indicated, using the special diacritics meant for that purpose, in most -- if not all -- IPA notations, then what DO you do? If you can't pick it up yourself, if natives don't consciously know about these details, if standard notation makes no mention of it, then who is going to tell you? How are you going to find out? Edited by Arekkusu on 14 April 2010 at 5:03pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| irishpolyglot Nonaglot Senior Member Ireland fluentin3months Joined 5633 days ago 285 posts - 892 votes Speaks: Irish, English*, French, Esperanto, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, German, Sign Language Studies: Mandarin | Message 36 of 47 14 April 2010 at 5:11pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I've found the discussion in this thread fascinating as native accents have recently been my focus. I've heard Ramses speak, and although he and I have certainly had our differences of opinion and arguments, I am very impressed by his correct intonation and hope to speak Spanish like that myself some day.
To contribute to this thread: I was successful in convincing Cariocas (residents of Rio) that I was one of them with just 3 months of work, starting from speaking very well already. I could keep this up for up to 30 seconds of a two-way conversation having just been introduced to someone, and only if I was extremely focused and trying (which I would do at the start of most social occasions, getting tired later on). After 30 seconds they would suddenly hear me say something strange and ask where I was from and confirm that they thought I was Brazilian up to that point. 3 months is a short time limit of course, but with more time I feel what I attempted would have had this come more naturally, less intentionally and over longer initial time periods. Recording my own voice and comparing it to a native has helped, but with my Portuguese I found it better to get private lessons, not from a language teacher, but from a singing instructor or voice trainer. Natives usually go to them for proper enunciation and whatnot. Voice trainers are usually hired by radio announcers for example. This is what I did with Portuguese - private lessons several times a week for 8 weeks, after first reactivating my Portuguese and studying some grammar and vocabulary to bring my level up - no grammar or vocabulary or usual language lessons were given in the classes, although better turns of phrase and some expressions were given to me to replace what I would otherwise say. It was not very enjoyable, because (at my request) every single thing that I said was nitpicked and analysed, and I had to repeat particular sentences over and over again. One day, for example, my instructor insisted that I repeat the same one phrase again and again for 10 minutes and she kept at me until I eliminated all of foreign aspects of saying that phrase. Aspects of accents I didn't even realise I had to work on like musicality, tonality, intonation, as well as of course pronunciation, were discussed at length. If you are curious, you can see some of the conclusions that I had reached on what someone in a similar situation would have to do to speak Portuguese like a Carioca. I'm currently working on my German and once I'm at the stage of speaking confidently, I plan on doing something similar. I've got a log on the forum for that project here. Edited by irishpolyglot on 14 April 2010 at 5:16pm 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| quendidil Diglot Senior Member Singapore Joined 6312 days ago 126 posts - 142 votes Speaks: Mandarin, English* Studies: Japanese | Message 37 of 47 14 April 2010 at 5:23pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Khatzumoto actually fits into category 3, see some of his older posts about how his half-Korean, half-Japanese friend would ruthlessly tease him whenever he made a mistake in speaking Japanese. He mentions speaking Japanese with other Japanese friends too.
I think very few people can actually get a native accent completely under category 1 , except for closely related languages. However good they can get, they would still need tweaking under the advice of native speakers. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5381 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 38 of 47 14 April 2010 at 5:24pm | IP Logged | |||||
3 months' work for 30 seconds of reward? What was in those 30 seconds? Greetings or actual full sentences? The occasional slip-up is inevitable (even for natives), but I'd consider that a person could pass for a native if they could say the equivalent for a paragraph without being detected as a non-native. That would be a good start. Mind you, that might only take 30 seconds too, but it's 30 seconds of complete sentences with intention over main and subordinate clauses and interaction between separate sentences. Edited by Arekkusu on 14 April 2010 at 5:38pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| irishpolyglot Nonaglot Senior Member Ireland fluentin3months Joined 5633 days ago 285 posts - 892 votes Speaks: Irish, English*, French, Esperanto, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, German, Sign Language Studies: Mandarin | Message 39 of 47 14 April 2010 at 5:32pm | IP Logged | |||||
The 30 seconds 'reward' happened several times with different people. I think it was worth the 3 months for what I learned ;) A socialising technique I use involves starting conversations in the middle with strangers to feel more at ease with people and make friends quicker. Obviously easier in certain cultures and age groups. So there was no "hello, my name is Benny, what do you do?" or no scripts that I would recite. Just a natural conversation about what was going on (football match, cute girls, bad music etc.) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Sprachprofi Nonaglot Senior Member Germany learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6470 days ago 2608 posts - 4866 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese | Message 40 of 47 14 April 2010 at 5:46pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I must say you have a talent for picking up accents though, Benny. From your German I
couldn't have guessed that English was your mother tongue, and the only thing that sounded really out of place was your AU. Also, I had the chance to observe an English speaker from Alberta trying to teach you the expression "das ist mir Wurst", and you imitated her weird Albertan U sound to the tee before I intervened. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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