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Question on Castillian phonology | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Merv Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5272 days ago 414 posts - 749 votes  Speaks: English*, Serbo-Croatian* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 1 of 6 29 June 2010 at 6:57am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Is "x" pronounced like the Greek Ξ or like an "s"?
The "d" sounds like it's almost a very soft voiced "th" if followed by a vowel but if at the end of a word, e.g. usted or verdad, it is like a voiceless dental stop. Is this correct? Also, the "ll" pronunciation is a bit unclear. Sometimes it sound like English "y" and sometimes it sounds like the "d y" of "would you" or the Hungarian "gy" and sometimes it sounds like a Љ. So which is it? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| XGargoyle Bilingual Triglot Groupie Spain Joined 5955 days ago 42 posts - 93 votes Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan*, EnglishB2 Studies: GermanA2, Japanese, Russian | Message 2 of 6 29 June 2010 at 9:01am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Spanish phonology differs greatly on every region the language is being spoken.
For example, in the central region of Madrid, the name of the city is pronounced as in "Madriz" (using a /θ/ voiceless dental fricative), however, the same word in the region of Catalonia (which is just 600 kilometers apart) is pronounced as in "Madrit" (using a /t/ voiceless alveolar plosive) My recommendation, use the dialectal variation that allows you to interact to a broader number of speakers. Being in the US, most probably you will find a greater number of speakers from Mexico, Puerto Rico or Cuba, depending on which state you live. All the dialectal variations are mutually understandable, even if the sounds are different (you will eventually find out that vocabulary is more a differentiation factor than phonology). From my point of view I would choose a dialectal variation that is richer in sounds. Castillian is known for its richness in phonology compared to other dialects such as Cuban, but that doesn't mean one is better or worse than the other. Moreover, since Castillian has a broader sound spectrum than for example, Mexican, it will be easier for a learner (and even for a native speaker) to write correctly the words. It's really annoying to read words such as "descanzo", "centimiento" or "cansión" (instead of "descanso", "sentimiento" or "canción) For a more detailed information, you can always check this wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_phonology#Dialectal_var iation 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5429 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 3 of 6 29 June 2010 at 1:15pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I beg to differ slightly with XGargoyle in terms of recommendation of a phonetic standard for learners. Although beginners have a lot to work on besides choice of dialect, I would suggest slecting a dialect based on choice of country and culture and not on richness of sound spectrum. If it is sheer numbers of population, then it would be Latin America and more particularly Mexico.
The biggest distinction between Peninsular Spanish and American Spanish is the ceseo and the seseo that refer to the pronunciation of the z and c before vowels. So that of course is the first choice to be made. The discussion is a bit moot because a lot depends where you are studying Spanish and where your teachers are from. If you are in Argentina with Argentinian teachers, you will tend to sound Argentinian. The same goes for Mexico, Cuba or any country. Obviously, if your primary focus is Spain, you would be advised to work on Castillian. But considering that for North Americans, Spanish is primarily associated with Latin American and the Caribbean, I think most people would opt for an American Spanish. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Javi Senior Member Spain Joined 5980 days ago 419 posts - 548 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 4 of 6 29 June 2010 at 8:17pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
What do you mean with Castillian? For example, I myself speak Castillian, that is, Spanish, but I don't do that with a Castillian accent, in case such a thing do even exist. Anyway, off the top of my head I can think of several sounds, depending on dialects and individual speakers: x: ks, gz, s, h, d: d (like in English but with the tip of the tongue pushing the upper teeth), th (like in whether), t, th (like in truth), and you can skip it altogether. ll: I haven't paid enough attention. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6942 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 5 of 6 29 June 2010 at 9:34pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I am going to quote from the introductory section of a dictionary. Some of this information may be dated, and perhaps real speech is just too varied to capture with full accuracy. Still, this may offer a starting point.
"a. x represents between vowels [gs] (g here is voiced velar fricative - I don't know how to type the symbol used in the book) or simply [S] in Spain and [ks] in Spanish America. Examples: examen, próximo. b. Before a consonant x represents [S] in Spain and [s] in Spanish America, except in affected speech, when one hears [ks]. Examples: extranjero, experiencia. Before c [s] it is k [eksépto]. c. In several Indian words of Mexico and Central America x represents [x]. México is one of these and is spelled Méjico in Spain." (Comment: I recall that El País may use the México spelling. Even if my recollection is correct, I am not sure what other Spanish newspapers do. I believe x sounds like [s], not [x] in Xochimilco. In some Indian words it may even have a /sh/ sound, but I can't give an example.)
"d represents /d/, which has three variants according to position in the phrase [d], [d'], [d"] (here I use d' and d" instead of what's in the book). At the beginning of the breath group or after /n/ and /l/, d represents [d], which is similar to the English /d/ of dame, did, darn. Examples: donde, falda, conde. In all other situations the letter represents [d'], or even silence. There is a tendency in modern Spanish to move from the fricative [d'] (similar to the sound represented by the th in mother, this, then) to zero articulation [d"]. Examples: hado, cuerda, es de, dos dados, cuadro, padre, abad, usted, Madrid. The last two words are usually pronounced without the final consonant, and the consonant tends to be very weak or even to disappear in the ending /-ado/: hablado, estado, mercado."
"ll represents [l'] (substitute symbol used instead of the one in the book) in northern Spain and in Bolivia, parts of Ecuador, Paraguay, and most of Peru, as well as in the eastern cordillera of Colombia. This sound is similar to that heard in English million. In other parts of the Spanish-speaking world, ll represents [y]. Examples: calle, llano, olla." (Comment: I wonder if the "million" type of ll sound is still as widely used as claimed here.) Edited by frenkeld on 30 June 2010 at 2:42am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5452 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 6 of 6 29 June 2010 at 10:48pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I think most do. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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