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Learning languages despite of racism | ||
Tags: Discrimination | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| pleasance Newbie Canada Joined 5354 days ago 2 posts - 3 votes | Message 1 of 22 02 April 2010 at 10:59am | IP Logged |
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For a long time now I've been trying to learn French and Italian on my own without ever
having set foot in either country where those languages are spoken. But sometimes I wonder: what if I have a rotten time there because of their racist attitudes towards Asians (I'm Chinese - Canadian)? Would I wonder why I spent all that time learning their languages? Isn't it true that the way you are treated as a person by the natives of a country comes into play and affects how willing you are to learn that country's language. White people have more of an incentive to learn these languages "for fun" because they know they will be welcomed warmly by the country's natives. But that's just for European languages. With East Asia, I find it quite puzzling that there are so many foreigners interested in learning Japanese when the Japanese themselves are really quite xenophobic. It doesn't matter how well you speak Japanese, because you will always be considered an outsider. That's one example. Lots of Chinese people want to learn English because it's the universal language, but they also know that at least with Americans... many are very friendly and open-minded and will invite you into their homes and be very hospitable. You would want to learn the language knowing you'll get to interact with such a warm friendly group of people who will accept you and want to learn about you, as you would them. I'm worried this might not be the case with France, Italy, Germany, etc. I hope I make sense. (I guess I'm exagerrating... there are good people everywhere. It's just I recently returned from a 9 month stay in the UK, where I came away with a somewhat lackluster impression of the English. I found the people there aloof (yes, I expected it) and not as tolerant as Canadians or Americans for that matter.) 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5842 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes  Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 2 of 22 02 April 2010 at 1:22pm | IP Logged |
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Sorry you didn't enjoy your stay in England!
I have some American friends here in London and they feel that Brits sometimes are a bit reserved towards them. But it's all relative; it's just a different mentality; the Americans are more outgoing, open and unreserved, whereas to some Brits this seems a bit "in-your-face" OTT friendly and possibly fake. Both are right. It's always a good idea to adapt to the place you are living though, but it can be hard to work out exactly what in your normal behaviour you have to change. It took me a while. Why would you be worried about encountering racism here? Are you of non-European origin? Well you probably noticed that there are lots of non-European people around and mostly they are doing fine. Most of the problems are cultural and social -- if they are born in Africa or the Middle East they have different values and references. Because of Europe's legacy with colonialism, the holocaust etc most people are VERY aware and err on the side of caution when it comes to racism. It's illegal and every part of government and media is against it. To say that things are worse on this front than in America is probably incorrect.Many European countries have a lot of experience with socialism and social-democracy; these political philosophies are very anti-racist and globalist in their world views and actively works against racism throughout society. But also, don't forget that unlike America, Europe IS the home of "white" people and our cultures. It is not a country of immigrants like the US/Canada where the "native population" in not white. I don't feel any guilt about believing that this is MY home and people from other continents who move here are welcome and worth the same as me, but ought to try to adjust to our society if they plan to stay. The same goes for Europeans who move to other parts of the world, I think. In Rome, do as the Romans is a good saying. ------------------------------- For family reasons I have spent a lot of time in Japan and I wouldn't say they are racist exactly; rather that they consider Japanese to be the norm in Japan. They have nothing in principle against inter-racial marriages for example. My father (Swedish) is appreicated in my step-mothers family (Japanese). Even though I can only speak basic Japanese my the relatives are kind and helpful towards me. I think Japanese people have a problem with people who stay in Japan long term and don't bother learning the language, or imagine they know it because they know a few phrases. Also people who compare Japan with Western countries instead of respecting in it's own right, and who go there with a superior attitude. There are problems with immigrants from other Asian countries feeling slightly discriminated against, but I don't think there are SERIOUS problems. Personally I wouldn't want to live there, but it has nothing to do with the people; just the super-intensive lifestyle. I have have always been treated with respect. It's helpful if you change your style a bit when you go there; for example I (female) speak softer and less, I hold back a bit and generally behave a bit differently than I do in Europe. I am also careful to remember all Japanese etiquette that I know and this means people know I respect their traditions. (However I sometimes make mistakes anyway). People laugh but not in a nasty way. It's obvious that I am not Japanese both from my looks and speech - so what. Edited by cordelia0507 on 02 April 2010 at 1:53pm 6 persons have voted this message useful | |
| nescafe Senior Member Japan Joined 5413 days ago 137 posts - 227 votes | Message 3 of 22 02 April 2010 at 1:57pm | IP Logged |
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This is a very serious and important problem, I think. I am an Asian, Japanese. I understand you.
Canada is a mutliethinic country, but in my country, the overwhelming majority is Japanese. Japan is a monolingual country and people seems to believe their country is a 単一民族国家 (meaning, a country in which only one ethnic group live), as once a prime minister (Yasuhiro Nakasone) said in the congress. I think there are kinds of problems in Japan which are similar to your experience in England, and which are unfamiliar to people in multiethnic countries like Canada. I can imagine your situation in England (at least I believe so). I have lots to say about this, but I need time to make it clear in myself... Edited by nescafe on 02 April 2010 at 2:00pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| The Real CZ Senior Member United States Joined 5653 days ago 1069 posts - 1495 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 4 of 22 02 April 2010 at 2:11pm | IP Logged |
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Being half white and half Korean, I'm learning Korean and Japanese. The only way I could have more racism towards me is if I learned one of the Chinese languages.
1 person has voted this message useful | |
| datsunking1 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5589 days ago 1014 posts - 1533 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German, Russian, Dutch, French | Message 5 of 22 02 April 2010 at 2:23pm | IP Logged |
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Racism is a horrible occurance in today's world, and I frown upon every bit of it, whether they be jokes or serious statements. I find it all pathetic.
Don't fear where you're going, learn the language because you want to :) You don't have to answer to anyone why you're doing it, and you certainly don't have to put up with racism. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |
| nescafe Senior Member Japan Joined 5413 days ago 137 posts - 227 votes | Message 6 of 22 02 April 2010 at 2:29pm | IP Logged |
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Buddha said: Everything has its reason of being. Therefore racism must have its reason. I am not saying racism can be justified ethicaly, but saying there must be social, economical, or psychological backlgrounds of racism.
Think of a situation (just a thought experiment, no offensive meaning). If I meet an Adolf, a racist, in Berlin, Germany, I will find the situation is dangerous. I am an Asian in a German city, there are going Germans around. Very dangerous. Another situation, If I meet the Adolf in Beijing, I will find nothing to worry about, because Beijing is a city in the East, there are going billion of Chinese around. Racism or any other form of descrimination is essentialy a matter of majority vs minority. I have not been discriminated by White people in Japan! (My city, Kyoto, has larger White population than other cities) Your problem is if there is a reason to learn European languages, despite of possible racism. This can be interpreted as if there is a reson to learn a language, nevertheless you are going to be minority of the language speaker. If you want to get naturalized in a country of your target language, you will have to be prepared for possible disadvantages, but if not so, speaking a language as minority will be beneficial to you. edit: Sorry, there seem to be much mistakes in my post. I drunk a bit. Edited by nescafe on 04 April 2010 at 10:41pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Loðbrók Trilingual Triglot Newbie Switzerland Joined 5354 days ago 11 posts - 11 votes Speaks: German*, Swiss-German* Studies: French*, English Studies: Swedish | Message 7 of 22 02 April 2010 at 2:50pm | IP Logged |
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Racism, on of many warts on this world...
However, learning the language, I think, is counter-racistic. Makes a better impression if you emmigrate to, say, the UK and speak English. We've basically got the same situation in Switzerland. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| vientito Senior Member Canada Joined 6342 days ago 212 posts - 281 votes | Message 8 of 22 02 April 2010 at 3:45pm | IP Logged |
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You seem to worry too much about things that you have not even embarked upon. This is not a good trait to pick up. Life is full of surprises and if you got stopped at every turn by things you worry about then there is no room to experience the various aspects of it. In fact, a lot of so called racism stem from an innate fear of unknown and a resistance that develops from that. Fear is the first step you have to overcome. Say to yourself: I learn something new hence I am more evolved that those who resist. There is nothing to fear about racism. It will always exist. I won't let that to define my life.
Also, you have to very careful to distinguish between feeling of alienation and feeling of being discriminatd upon. A lot of times people don't really harbour ill feeling toward strangers but it is just a case of unfamiliarity and unease. Then it is always you who have to break the ice and to help things move forward. By the way, why go all the way to France to learn french? You forget about Quebec and New Brunswick here in your own backyard? 4 persons have voted this message useful |
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