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Canadian French Language Leaders Debate | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Valicore Hexaglot Newbie United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5348 days ago 10 posts - 11 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, French, Catalan, Italian Studies: Russian, Mandarin | Message 17 of 22 11 April 2010 at 7:13am | IP Logged | |||||
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Oh man, I remember the first time I heard "Canadian French" (it was my sister's
significant other who was born and partially raised in Rigaud before moving here, I now know that she was practically speaking Joual and spoke it everyday as her parents refused to speak English with her). I thought she was speaking some Alien language, and that was having had some French study. I was 13 or 14 at the time, so I'm easier on myself for the reaction, but it is really different. It frustrated me to the point that I vowed to study it like crazy, which I did and it is a lot easier for me to get it now. What is the sentiment like in Québec at the moment in terms of trying to get independence? For awhile it looked like there was a bit of momentum for another referendum. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Valicore Hexaglot Newbie United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5348 days ago 10 posts - 11 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, French, Catalan, Italian Studies: Russian, Mandarin | Message 18 of 22 11 April 2010 at 7:14am | IP Logged | |||||
I'd love it if you would open your own thread on it, it's very interesting, I think. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5434 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes  Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 19 of 22 11 April 2010 at 8:02am | IP Logged | |||||
What does "their accents would be mutually intelligible" mean? I take exception to the statement that English-Canadians and French-Canadians (note I would prefer English-speaking Canadians and French-speaking Canadians) live apart from each other. In fact, quite the contrary, they do live close to each other. What is true is that the French-speakers are concentrated in three provinces, Quebec, Ontario and New Brunswick, with some significant presence in Manitoba. In areas where French-speakers are a minority, there is considerable interaction with the majority English-speaking majority in English. In Quebec the situation is somewhat different. The English-speaking minority has historically been able to function solely in English. This is no longer the case today. Anyone with any professional or political activity or just anybody who works with the public has to have some knowledge of French. You can not drive a bus or a taxi, work in a hospital or at any level of government without some French. Of course, if you never leave the house, you may not need French and I'm sure that some people resist learning French, but it is clear that anybody who intends to make a future in Quebec recognizes the need to know French. Those people in minority situations, either English or French speaking, acquire an understanding of the majority language because it is the language they hear. In Quebec it is Quebecois French, elsewhere it is Canadian English. What I think this author is referring to is the situation of people who have no contact with the other language, and there are many of them in the majority language groups. What is also true is that historically the variety of French taught in schools has been a formal language patterned after so-called international or Parisian French, considered superior to Canadian French. Some people believe this variety of French is purer and easier to understand. Of course this is the French of non-Quebecois movies, either imported or dubbed. It any case, it has often been a convenient excuse for not being able to speak French in Canada ("I'm sorry, I studied Parisian French"). Basically, there is a prejudice, especially outside Quebec, against Canadian French. This has been changing, especially regards Quebecois French which is coming into its own. I certainly would not call American English the dominant form of English in Canadian media. It is certainly not the case in the printed media and while it is the dominant form in movies and very widespread in television, it is not the case in radio. I wouldn't say that the CBC or any of the Canadian networks are dominated by American usage. By the same token one could not say that the French-language media, printed or electronic, is dominated by European French. By the way, the expression "metropolitan French" seems quaint today and, in my observation here in Quebec, has not been used since the 1960s because it has a colonialist connotation. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| doviende Diglot Senior Member Canada languagefixatio Joined 5990 days ago 533 posts - 1245 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Spanish, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Hindi, Swedish, Portuguese | Message 20 of 22 12 April 2010 at 6:36am | IP Logged | |||||
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As a side note, Layton does in fact speak a Chinese language, specifically Cantonese. He's quite good, as far as I can tell, probably because his wife is a native Cantonese speaker.
The funny part about Canadian language politics is that there's very little french spoken outside of the french-dominated areas. Out here in Vancouver, we're officially part of "bilingual" Canada, but less than 1% of the population speaks french. Meanwhile, in my neighbourhood it's about 40% speakers of either Cantonese or Mandarin, and nearby there are neighbourhoods with large percentages of Punjabi speakers. Spanish is also spoken in much larger numbers than french. The french-language debate is part of the theatrics that are necessary as part of the nationalist project of keeping those french provinces as part of "Canada". 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5385 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 21 of 22 12 April 2010 at 1:11pm | IP Logged | |||||
I grew up in the opposite situation, in a city where 97.5% of the population spoke French as a first language. As we have seen in the past, these "theatrics" are not enough to convince most people in a similar situation that remaining part of Canada is a desirable thing. As for Layton, I believe I heard him say that his mother-in-law lived with them, and that she only spoke Cantonese so he had no choice but to learn some. However, his efforts at speaking it seemed laborious at best. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5434 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 22 of 22 12 April 2010 at 3:14pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I think it's important to remind people that according to the Official Languages Act of 1969, Canada has two official languages. The act does not say that Canada is a bilingual country from coast to coast. There is an important nuance here. Many languages are spoken in Canada, and various levels of government may choose to offer services in a variety of languages to best serve their constituents.
The federal government is required to provide services in both official languages where the numbers of speakers justify such services. For example, all public signage is bilingual but not all government employees are expected to be bilingual. In areas where French is not present, services in that language will be very limited. Obviously, there is probably more need for bilingual Cantonese-English speakers in Vancouver than English-French speakers in the job market, but French and English are the official languages of the country. On the subject of the French-language debates of the political leaders, I have to say that Canada has come a long way. Those of us with any sense of history will recall a time not that far back when English-speaking political leaders at the federal level spoke no French at all. Bilingual politicians were all from Quebec or New Brunswick. The Official Languages Act of 1969 and the rise of Quebec nationalism changed all of that. French became a necessity. Over the years we have seen English-language party leaders demonstrate an ever-improving knowledge of French. The most bilingual English-mother tongue prime minister was Brian Mulroney who, by the way, attended university in French. An excellent example of someone who made a great effort is Joe Clark. Since then all politicians with federal ambitions have to know some French.If we look at the current English-speaking federal party leaders, they all are bilingual to some extent. You have to admit that politicians must have a thick skin. How many of us would accept to debate in a second language against native speakers of that language? I've been studying Spanish for a number of years, but I would certainly think twice before going on Mexican TV to debate against native speakers. Yes, our politicians tend to mangle the French language, but I give them high marks for trying. And every generation just gets better. 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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