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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Zeitgeist21 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5644 days ago 156 posts - 192 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: German, French | Message 9 of 30 21 April 2010 at 11:38pm | IP Logged | |||||
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We have that though; "one". The only problem is that it sounds incredibly pompous, other languages don't have those negative overtones for such a word as far as I know. At least in French and German it's perfectly normal to use the equivalent, "on" and "man", and I use them both very frequently in those languages. But in English it just sounds... bad, though I wish it didn't.
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| Smart Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 5338 days ago 352 posts - 398 votes Speaks: Spanish, English*, Latin, French Studies: German | Message 10 of 30 22 April 2010 at 1:26am | IP Logged | |||||
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Nice thread. I never use it though :)
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| lynxrunner Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United States crittercryptics.com Joined 5921 days ago 361 posts - 461 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish*, French Studies: Russian, Swedish, Haitian Creole | Message 11 of 30 22 April 2010 at 1:40am | IP Logged | |||||
"One" is not a gender-neutral pronoun in the style of "she" or "he". You cannot say "A student must read one's books." For me, it feels as if "one's books" are not the same as "the student's books". You also can't say: "Someone's at the door. I'll get it for one." That's just plain wrong. You can, however, say: "Someone's at the door. I'll get it for them/him/her." French "on" is the same as English "one" and it is not a gender-neutral version of he or she. Can't speak for German. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| hvorki_ne Groupie Joined 5385 days ago 72 posts - 79 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Icelandic | Message 12 of 30 22 April 2010 at 2:09am | IP Logged | |||||
'It' can refer to people- I know a few who's preferred personal pronoun is 'it'.
Yes- but sometimes ze/zan just sounds confusing when you're talking to people who don't know your friend's gender. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Spanky Senior Member Canada Joined 5955 days ago 1021 posts - 1714 votes Studies: French | Message 13 of 30 22 April 2010 at 2:28am | IP Logged | |||||
I am getting itchy just thinking about how wrong this sounds. Don't try that crazy talk in Canada or you'll get a beat down and no maple syrup for you - yes, grammar is taken that seriously in Canada. Also, I am looking for a maple syrup forfeit on the "Do anyone else" clause - I believe this should be "Does anyone else" - told ya we are grammar demons over here! You all in the United Kingdom may have exported the blasted language, but in Canada we consider ourselves its protectors (hence our rabid border war with the Yanks over the correct spelling of "colour" and "humour" and the like). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Zeitgeist21 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5644 days ago 156 posts - 192 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, French | Message 14 of 30 22 April 2010 at 10:43am | IP Logged | |||||
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Lnyxrunner I stand corrected! This is what happens when someone who never studied grammar tries to use the labels they don't understand :D And yes I did just use they =D
Actually I would never write that sentence with anything other than they, anything else in that sentence would wrong to me ^^ I guess I'll avoid going to Canada =D I never knew that the Canadians spelt colour correctly!! ;) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Zeitgeist21 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5644 days ago 156 posts - 192 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, French | Message 15 of 30 22 April 2010 at 10:44am | IP Logged | |||||
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Actually wait a minute, that wasn't singular ^^ Forget that comment :D Yet another lack of comprehension in grammar from WillH :P Oh dear this immersion method does have it's downfalls ^^
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| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5429 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 16 of 30 22 April 2010 at 12:50pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I'm a fan of singular they myself, but I think the problem of its usage stems really from the form of the accompanying verb when "they" is a subject pronoun. The example "I'm looking for a doctor who knows what they are doing" maybe be right but sounds a bit odd because of the "are". Then again, it would sound worse with "they is".
This leads to a topic that is maybe related. Certain dialects of English use "is" for all the forms of present tense for "to be". Hence "I is", "You is", "They is", etc. Other dialects will use "does" as in "I does go", "She does go", etc. So, the problem with singular they is that it clashes with the plural verb form that it usually takes. If we use a singular verb form, the problem is attenuated. Something similar occurs in French. Mention has been made of "on" as the equivalent of English "one". Yes, that is one usage. But by far the most important use of "on" is the replace "nous". In fact the subject pronoun nous has become somewhat rare in casual speech. For example, "on est contents" means "we are happy". You may have noticed that I put an s on contents to indicate plurality. This has been controversial among grammarians because the verb "est" is third person singular. Modern usage seems to favour the plural form. Actually, this way it becomes easier to distinguish between the two usages of "on". 1 person has voted this message useful |
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