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Will English take over? | ||
Tags: Lingua franca | Endangered Language | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5430 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes  Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 25 of 37 05 March 2010 at 7:35pm | IP Logged | ||
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Rather than English taking over or replacing the various national languages, I think the more likely scenario in the long run is ultimately some form of hybridization between English and various languages.
Languages tend to differentiate along national and geographical boundaries. Where I live in Quebec, Canada, the future of the French language is major political issue because it is at the heart of a question of national identity. French shows no sign of disappearing despite the small size of the French-speaking population relative to the rest of North America. Quite the contrary, it is expanding because of explicit government policy. However, what is not so easy to stop is the spread of bilingualism and the inevitable mixing of languages. I think it would be interesting for this debate to look at levels of usage or knowledge of English in the various countries. Let us not forget that, as a spoken language, English is very varied between and within countries. English is still evolving and one of the reasons is contact with other languages. Something that is probably happening is the rise of new varieties of English. For example, if English becomes pervasive enough in Norway as to start being used as a primary language of communication, one would probably see the rise of a distinctive variety of Norwegian English. Edited by s_allard on 06 March 2010 at 6:27am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Impiegato Triglot Senior Member Sweden bsntranslation. Joined 5433 days ago 100 posts - 145 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, Italian Studies: Spanish, French, Russian | Message 26 of 37 06 March 2010 at 12:07am | IP Logged | ||
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I don't think English will take over. I can think of several reasons: in Europe, big countries will protest and are constantly doing so. Even in a relatively small country like Sweden, there has been a debate in Sweden the last years about the protection of our mother tongue. I don't think any of the Scandinavian languages is seriously threatened. As long as parents continue to teach their mother tongue to their children in Scandinavia. It is not only the number of people speaking a language that determines whether there is a risk of replacing it with English. I think that cultural and economic impact are also important factors. So is the absence or presence of nationalism. How proud is an average Swede of speaking Swedish and not anyting else? That is crucial for the survival of the language.
The last 20 years or so the globalization has created a need for language learning, but it has mostly concerned English. I think that this will change in the future. Companies often have English as an official language, but people speak other languages anyway in smaller groups in the factory or in the office or in organizations. Companies must think more and more about how they could compete and my guess is that they will hire extremely specialized translators instead of writing decent (but not excellent) English. What I mean is that employees probably tend to think that messages that they get in their mother tongue are more important and concern themselves or affect them in a more emotional way. If you can speak their language (and not only send an anonymous message in English) you can also create trust. What I mean by all this is that you can not force people to speak a certain language. A language that is official has gained that position only for the company's convenience and probable economic benefits. Chinese influence on both politics and economy will grow constantly and so will the joint economies of Spanish-speaking countries. In twenty years, I presume that a lot of the research will be done in Mandarin, because I imagine that the universities in China will use Mandarin. Maybe, there will be a division of research magazines: one bunch of magazines for those who write in English and another bunch for those who write in Mandarin. This also means that an important additonal qualification for any researcher will be to at least understand the other language. Edited by Impiegato on 07 March 2010 at 8:19pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5838 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 27 of 37 06 March 2010 at 12:31am | IP Logged | ||
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I have been expressing my views about this in the past, but apparently a few people took offense on the grounds that my views were supposedly anti-American.
Apparently in a more international perspective, some view it as "anti-American" for Europeans to want to maintain their own culture and language, and to strongly speak out in support of their language. The French, among others are often accused of this, but they are not alone. On the other hand, from a local perspective it is sometimes considered "racist" to be too language/culture centred in regards to ones own language/ culture, (Me, the anti-American, racist..... because I like my own language and culture!) Meanwhile, some Europeans love the opportunity to show off their skills in English at every opportunity and therefore don't have an issue with the situation, since they don't see any immediate (today or tomorrow) threat to their native language. Remember that all the half-dead languages in Europe, ex-Soviet etc were one living languages with millions of speakers, litterature and traditions! Nobody saw it coming until it was too late. Somebody started a thread about this (in English!) in the Scandinavian lounge. I posted a dramatic warning...! In my opintion, our languages are really in the riskzone: -They are small -English teaching in Scandinavia is very efficient -People get further exposure through un-dubbed TV and music -Good English is a requirement for university studies -English is the "business language" in many companies. -Many people genuinely enjoy speaking English They'll have a brutal awakening when they are 75 years old and their grandchildren address them in English! This scene has already been played out (bigger language knocking out smaller...) in places like Wales, Northern Scandinavia, across the ex-USSR area, to American Indians and hundreds others that I don't even know about. Why should Norwegian with 4 million speakers be immune, or even Swedish (9 million)? And remember that a lot of the culture and traditions would die and be marginalised together with the language. They are linked. [edited some typos] Edited by cordelia0507 on 06 March 2010 at 11:13am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| ruskivyetr Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5481 days ago 769 posts - 962 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Spanish, Russian, Polish, Modern Hebrew | Message 28 of 37 06 March 2010 at 3:41am | IP Logged | ||
I fully and entirely agree with this statement. I think that you are not anti-American for wanting to support your own culture and language and not wanting English to take over. I myself really do not like the English language. It sounds ugly, it has a really bland sound to it, and it has to much of a simplified grammar for me to take it seriously. People tell me that they get really bad treatement from the French people when they are in France. It is because they are rude and disrespectful enough to address French people IN English from the start. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tritone Senior Member United States reflectionsinpo Joined 6120 days ago 246 posts - 385 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Portuguese, French | Message 29 of 37 06 March 2010 at 6:58am | IP Logged | ||
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"Taking over" implies force. Nothing was imposed on you, stop pretending you don't have free will.
Its really simple. Don't speak English. Don't consume so many american products/media, and those elements will disappear from your countries. It wouldn't be there if there wasn't demand for it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5838 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 30 of 37 06 March 2010 at 12:13pm | IP Logged | ||
Well Tritone, I'd consider following your advice but unfortunately I wanted to go to university (requires taking an English exam or a good mark in English)... And after that I wanted a good job. (any job apart from a very basic blue-collar job requires English). I did not want to live on benefits or take a bottom of the pile job. I doubt there are any jobs at all in Scandinavia, apart from seriously unqualified ones, where you could manage without at least basic English. It would certainly be expected of any secretary, receptionist, machine operator, waitress etc that they could hold up a conversation. In my case, I am a manager in IT, an impossibility without English. But you are right, nobody was standing with a shotgun pointed against my head, and much of the learning was motivated by a desire to take part of a big cultural scene. Tritone, imagine if your college/university education was dependant on you being fluent in French or Spanish at age 18? And your subsequent job offers and career prospects depended on it too? That's exactly the situation I am talking about here, just a different language. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Impiegato Triglot Senior Member Sweden bsntranslation. Joined 5433 days ago 100 posts - 145 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, Italian Studies: Spanish, French, Russian | Message 31 of 37 06 March 2010 at 3:31pm | IP Logged | ||
Now I want to analyze your arguments here: "-They are small -English teaching in Scandinavia is very efficient -People get further exposure through un-dubbed TV and music -Good English is a requirement for university studies -English is the "business language" in many companies. -Many people genuinely enjoy speaking English" "They are small" The fact that they are small does not mean that they will be replaced by English, only because English is cool, more useful or something else. What is really important is, according to my understanding: 1. The economic and political impact of the country. Sweden is quite powerful in terms of GDP per capita, which makes Swedish more important than many other languages spoken by a comparable number of people. Furthermore, many multinational companies are Swedish. 2. The attitude among those who speak the language as mother tongue. If a population has a lot of pride in their country, language, culture and so on, those who live there will try to preserve their mother tongue at any price. This argument is also linked to your last argument: "Many people genuinely enjoy speaking English" That could be a problem if the people at the same time oppress their mother tongue. However, I think it is possible to both preserve the mother tongue and to accept and use English. Do they have to compete, according to you? Your fourth argument: "Good English is a requirement for university studies" Yes, but good knowledge of Swedish is also a requirement. When the day has come when no knowledge of Swedish is required for university studies, I can agree with you! Your fifth argument: "English is the "business language" in many companies." Yes, but that does not mean that it is enough, or even accepted, to speak English at all levels in the company. English as the official language of a company does only mean one thing as I perceive it: that all important written information must be in English. Consequently, this is only about formal communication, but a lot of decisions are made in small groups, i e informal communication. What I mean is that the decision of the language to be used in the company gives no indication of the actual language situation in different branches of that company. Edited by Impiegato on 07 March 2010 at 8:20pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7156 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 32 of 37 06 March 2010 at 6:09pm | IP Logged | ||
English will more likely become a lingua franca in my view. Most nation-states or regions today have too much invested in the idea that they need a language associated with them, and those languages (often other than English) function well for them. I believe that this also partially explains why many nation-states also recoil at the idea of Esperanto being given a bigger role, for fear of supplanting the national language(s). On a related note, while some worry about a threat to European national languages from English, even in supposedly enlightened Europe, I can think of minority languages such as the Lappish ones being seriously endangered (if not pushed into extinction) because of the passive/active acceptance and/or imposition of the European national languages of Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish or Russian. Focusing on the presence of English as a danger can also make people forget that we can work on recovering or "revitalizing" languages when there is enough popular support and documentation/chrestomathies etc. Cornish comes to mind and that "resurrection" happened in the supposedly "unfriendly territory" of the English-speaking world. In general, English doesn't need to be seen as the "enemy" and it's simplistic for me to reduce the presence of English with another language as being a mutually exclusive relationship. English was an official language and lingua franca in Hong Kong since the 19th century but the Hongkongers' command of Cantonese hasn't deteriorated overall or been supplanted because of English. 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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