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Germanic "cheat sheet" | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7156 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes  20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 1 of 9 24 April 2010 at 9:35am | IP Logged | ||
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This post is similar to the recent threads about mutual intelligibility within Slavonic or selected Finno-Ugric languages. These rules of thumb are ones that I've picked up or adapted from my learning experiences with German along with consultation of books and articles on Germanic comparative linguistics. I hope that these rules of thumb will be useful for people who are interested in comparative linguistics and especially for people studying Germanic languages. Because I expect that much of the target audience here belongs in the second group, the examples and rules of thumb presented will draw heavily from phenomena in standard Germanic languages that are most likely to be encountered by learners. This means that examples from Gothic, Nynorsk or Scots among others will be absent. I welcome additions, comments or corrections to the rules of thumb, and would be happy to expand the list with additional rules of thumb or useful observations concerning Germanic made by others on the forum. In particular I would especially welcome comments or discussion about Germanic tenses as I have not been able to devise a workable or reliable rule of thumb that makes sense of the number of tenses in each of the Germanic languages.
As with the lists in the related threads on mutual intelligibility, I suggest that it'd be better for people not to read this post in one sitting but to read it slowly and carefully - if necessary in more than one sitting lest one becomes confused by the rules of thumb. Mutual intelligibility within Germanic varies. Danish, Norwegian, and Swedish are mutually intelligible in most instances as are English and Scots (to a somewhat lesser degree). On the other hand, Icelandic and German have relatively low mutual intelligibility. The degree of intelligibility can vary on the users’ background in or familiarity with Germanic languages in addition to whether one considers mutual intelligibility of spoken production or written production (e.g. Danish in speech tends to be less intelligible to Norwegians and Swedes than Danish in print). Here are some threads which deal with intra-Germanic mutual intelligibility: answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070409012506AAox1Zq (question about mutual intelligibility between Dutch and German) answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090531084502AAze7oi (question about mutual intelligibility of languages in Scandinavia) answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100324161752AAPoPAW (question about why English and German seem so mutually unintelligible) answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100404201241AA28R8g (question about how understandable Dutch is with a background in German) forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=631924 (discussion about mutual intelligibility between English and Dutch or Frisian) forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=631528 (discussion about mutual intelligibility between Dutch and German) forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=257129 (discussion about mutual intelligibility within the dialectal continuum of Germany) forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=209571 (discussion about mutual intelligibility among Danish, Dutch, Norwegian and Swedish) forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1214045 (discussion about the relationship between Dutch and German) www.lrz-muenchen.de/~hr/lang/dt-dial.html (discussion about German dialects) 74.50.54.7/forum/t2038.htm (discussion about English and intelligibility with other Germanic languages) www.antimoon.com/forum/t12537-0.htm (discussion about the difficulty of the Germanic languages) www.antimoon.com/forum/t4930-0.htm (discussion about Danish, Norwegian and Swedish) stason.org/TULARC/travel/nordic-scandinavia/3-2-5-Denmark-Th e-Danish-language.html (description about Danish and comparison with other Germanic languages) www.let.rug.nl/~gooskens/pdf/publ_methods_2009a.pdf (article about whether Danish is truly more difficult to understand than Swedish) esl.fis.edu/grammar/langdiff/swedish.htm (brief description about differences between English and Swedish) how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9573 &PN=1 (Ardaschir’s (Prof. Arguelles) posts and videos about Germanic languages) how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1786 2&PN=1 (thread about similarities between Dutch and Swedish) how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8259 &PN=1 (thread about Germanic languages in general) how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=793& PN=1 (thread about Germanic “transparency”) *** NOTE 1 Northern Germanic (NGmc) includes Danish, Faroese, Icelandic, Norwegian, Swedish Western Germanic (WGmc) includes Afrikaans, Dutch, English, Frisian, German, Yiddish NOTE 2 All examples unless otherwise indicated come from current standard languages. NOTE 3 “Norwegian” refers to “Bokmål” unless otherwise indicated. NOTE 4 The Romanized transcription of the Yiddish examples is from www.yiddishdictionaryonline.com/ *** Rules of thumb: 1) German PF often corresponds to P of cognates found in other Germanic languages (part of the Second Germanic Consonant Shift) “plough” NGmc plov (Danish); plógv (Faroese); plóg (Icelandic); plog (Norwegian, Swedish) WGmc ploeg (Afrikaans, Dutch); ploegje, ploeie (Frisian); PFlug (German) “apple” NGmc æble (Danish – see rule of thumb no. 8 for change of P to B); epli “potato” (Faroese – cf. surepli “sour apple”); epli (Icelandic); eple (Norwegian); äpple (Swedish) WGmc appel (Afrikaans, Dutch); apel (Frisian); APFel (German); epl (Yiddish) ------- 2) German and Yiddish FF or non-initial F often correspond to P(P) of cognates found in other Germanic languages (part of the Second Germanic Consonant Shift) “ship” NGmc skib (Danish, Faroese – see rule of thumb no. 8 for change of P to B); skip (Icelandic, Norwegian); skepp (Swedish) WGmc skip (Afrikaans, Frisian); schip (Dutch); SchiFF (German); shiF (Yiddish) “soap” NGmc sæbe (Danish – see rule of thumb no. 8 for change of P to B); sápa (Faroese, Icelandic); såpe (Norwegian); såpa (Swedish) WGmc seep (Afrikaans); zeep (Dutch); sjippe (Frisian); SeiFe (German); zeyF (Yiddish) ------- 3) Non-initial SS / ß in German and S in Yiddish often correspond to T of cognates found in other Germanic languages (part of the Second Germanic Consonant Shift) “to bite” NGmc bide (Danish – see rule of thumb no. 8 for change of T to D); bíta (Faroese, Icelandic); bite (Norwegian); bita (Swedish) WGmc bite (Afrikaans); bijten (Dutch); byt (Frisian); beiSSen / beißen (German); baySn (Yiddish) “foot” NGmc fod (Danish – see rule of thumb no. 8 for change of T to D); fótur (Faroese, Icelandic); fot (Norwegian, Swedish) WGmc voet (Afrikaans, Dutch); foet (Frisian); FuSS / Fuß (German); fuS (Yiddish) ------- 4) German Z or non-initial TZ (TS in Yiddish) often correspond to T(T) of cognates found in other Germanic languages (part of the Second Germanic Consonant Shift) “heart” NGmc hjerte (Danish, Norwegian); hjarta (Faroese, Icelandic); hjärta (Swedish) WGmc hart (Afrikaans, Dutch); hert (Frisian); HerZ (German); harTS (Yiddish) “tongue” NGmc tunge (Danish, Norwegian); tunga (Faroese, Icelandic, Swedish) WGmc tong (Afrikaans, Dutch); tonge (Frisian); Zunge (German); TSung (Yiddish) “to sit” NGmc sidde (Danish); sita (Faroese); sitja (Icelandic); sitte (Norwegian); sitta (Swedish) WGmc sit (Afrikaans); zitten (Dutch); sitte (Frisian); siTZen (German); ziTSn (Yiddish) ------- 5) German CH (KH in Yiddish) often corresponds to K(K) of cognates found in other Germanic languages IF the Proto-Germanic ancestor is reconstructed with K. This does not apply to instances where German CH is preceded by F, S or H, or followed by T) (part of the Second Germanic Consonant Shift) “book” NGmc bog (Danish – see rule of thumb no. 8 for change of K to G); bók (Faroese, Icelandic); bok (Norwegian, Swedish) WGmc boek (Afrikaans, Dutch, Frisian); BuCH (German); buKH (Yiddish) “to eke” (cf. to eke out a living ~ to “add” to one’s well-being / living conditions) NGmc øge “to increase” (Danish); økja “to increase” (Faroese); auka “to increase” (Icelandic); øke “to increase” (Norwegian); öka “to increase” (Swedish) WGmc ook “also” (Afrikaans, Dutch); ek “also” (Frisian); auCH “also” (German); oyKH (Yiddish) ------- 6) T(T) in German or Yiddish often corresponds to D, Ð, TH or Þ of cognates found in other Germanic languages (part of the Second Germanic Consonant Shift). “blood” NGmc blod (Danish, Norwegian, Swedish); blóð (Faroese, Icelandic) WGmc bloed (Afrikaans, Dutch, Frisian); BluT (German); bluT (Yiddish) “day” NGmc dag (Danish, Norwegian, Swedish); dagur (Faroese, Icelandic) WGmc dag (Afrikaans, Dutch); dei (Frisian); Tag (German); Tog (Yiddish) In a few instances, the German T corresponds to English S (Z). It appears that people sometime during the era of Middle English or Early Modern English started to change pronunciation of the 3rd person singular ending (e.g. he comeTH, she runnETH) of TH to S (Z). Er haT (German); He haTH (Middle English); He haS (Modern English) ------- 7) English and Icelandic use dental fricatives (i.e. TH in English, Ð and Þ in Icelandic) and these often correspond to D, Ð (Faroese only) or sometimes T(T) of cognates found in the remaining Germanic languages (N.B. The Faroese Ð is used for etymological reasons but is either silent or pronounced as V, W or Y depending on its position. It is NOT pronounced like English TH). “three” NGmc tre (Danish, Norwegian, Swedish); tríggir (Faroese); Þrír (Icelandic) WGmc tre (Afrikaans); drie (Dutch); THree (English); trije (Frisian); drei (German); dray (Yiddish) “north” NGmc nord (Danish, Norwegian, Swedish); norÐur (Faroese, Icelandic) WGmc noorde (Afrikaans); noord(en) (Dutch); noarden (Frisian); Nord(en) (German) “good” NGmc god (Danish, Norwegian, Swedish); góÐur (Faroese, Icelandic) WGmc goed (Afrikaans, Dutch, Frisian); Gut (German); gut (Yiddish) “both” NGmc både (Danish, Norwegian, Swedish); báÐir (Faroese); bæÐi (Icelandic) WGmc beide (Afrikaans, Dutch, Frisian, German); beyde (Yiddish) ------- 8) Danish words whose final syllable has B, D or G usually correspond to final syllables of applicable cognates in other Germanic languages which have P, T or K respectively. During the evolution of Danish, the tendency of placing stress away from the final syllable caused these final syllables to be pronounced less distinctly to the point where sounds “weakened” or dropped off altogether. “to buy” NGmc køBe (Danish); keypa (Faroese); kaupa (Icelandic); kjøpe (Norwegian); köpa (Swedish) WGmc koop “purchase” (Afrikaans); kopen (Dutch); [Cf. cheap (English)]; keap “purchase” (Frisian); kaufen (German – see rule of thumb no. 2 for change of P to F); koifen (Yiddish – see rule of thumb no. 2 for change of P to F) “cake” NGmc kaGe (Danish); kake (Norwegian); kaka (Faroese, Icelandic, Swedish) WGmc koek (Afrikaans, Dutch); koeke (Frisian); Kuchen (German); kukhn (Yiddish) “foot” NGmc foD (Danish); fótur (Faroese, Icelandic); fot (Norwegian, Swedish) WGmc voet (Afrikaans, Dutch); foet (Frisian); Fuss / Fuß (German – see rule of thumb no. 3 for change of T to SS); fus (Yiddish – see rule of thumb no. 3 for change of T to S) ------- 9) Most forms of Norwegian and Swedish (including the respective standard languages) use pitch-accent. The other Germanic languages do not. ------- 10) Faroese and Icelandic usually fix a word’s main accent (stress) on the first syllable. The position of the main accent in the remaining Germanic languages can fall on any syllable and is determined by fulfillment of conditions related to one of lexis, morphology or phonology. ------- 11) Afrikaans words can sometimes be distinguished from Dutch cognates by apocope or syncope. In other words, Afrikaans cognates of Dutch words appear to be lacking a sound or syllable that is still present in the Dutch form. nag (Afrikaans); nacht (Dutch); night (English) oor (Afrikans); over (Dutch, English) saal (Afrikaans); zadel (Dutch); saddle (English) ------- 12) An isogloss that separates English and Frisian from the other Germanic languages is the tendency for Y or I/J in an English or Frisian word respectively to correspond to G in cognates of the other Germanic languages. NGmc dag (Danish, Norwegian, Swedish); dagur (Faroese, Icelandic) WGmc dag (Afrikaans, Dutch); daY (English); deI (Frisian); Tag (German); tog (Yiddish) NGmc i går (Danish, Norwegian, Swedish); ígjár (Faroese); í gær (Icelandic) WGmc gister (Afrikaans); gisteren (Dutch); Yesterday (English); Juster (Frisian); gestern (German) ------- 13) An isogloss that separates English and Frisian from the other Germanic languages is the tendency for CH or TS in an English or Frisian word respectively to correspond to K or CH (i.e. KH) in other Germanic cognates. NGmc kirke (Danish, Norwegian); kirkja (Faroese, Icelandic); kyrka (Swedish) WGmc kerk (Afrikaans, Dutch); CHurCH (English); TSjerke (Frisian); Kirche (German); kirkh (Yiddish) NGmc kedel (Danish); ketil (Faroese); ketill (Icelandic); kjel (Norwegian); kittel (Swedish) WGmc ketel (Afrikaans, Dutch); kettle (English); TSjettel (Frisian); Kessel (German) ------- 14) The English cluster of -DG- tends to correspond to -CK-(K) in German or Yiddish cognates or -G(G)- in the remaining Germanic languages' cognates. NGmc ryg “back” (Danish); ryggur “back” (Faroese); hryggur “back” (Icelandic); rygg “back” (Norwegian, Swedish) WGmc rug “back”(Afrikaans, Dutch); riDGe (English); rêge (Frisian); Rück “back” (German); tsurik “again” (Yiddish) NGmc brygge “pier” (Danish, Norwegian); brúgv (Faroese); bryggja “pier” (Icelandic); brygga “pier” (Swedish) WGmc brug (Afrikaans, Dutch); briDGe (English); brêge (Frisian); Brücke (German); brik (Yiddish) ------- 15) Northern Germanic (except for some Western Danish dialects) uses enclitic definite articles that are attached to the noun (i.e. the article is attached to the end of the noun). Western Germanic (in addition to some Western Danish dialects) uses proclitic definite articles that are not attached to the noun (i.e. the article precedes the noun separately). NGmc barnET (Danish, Norwegian, Swedish); barnIÐ (Faroese, Icelandic) WGmc DIE kind (Afrikaans); HET kind (Dutch); THE child (English); DAS Kind (German); DAS kind (Yiddish) ------- 16) Afrikaans and English lack grammatical gender. However Faroese, German, Icelandic, Yiddish and certain dialects of Danish, Frisian and Norwegian use three grammatical genders. The remaining languages effectively use two genders (usually described as “common” versus “neuter”). ------- 17) German, Faroese and Icelandic have full declensional patterns for the four cases (i.e. nominative, accusative, dative, genitive). Yiddish has effectively merged the dative and accusative and in practice relies heavily on three cases. The remaining languages have in most instances reduced declension to one case (although pronouns and certain fixed expressions in these languages maintain some of the older case distinctions). Faroese, German, Icelandic: 4 cases, 3 grammatical genders (N.B. some forms of Low German have merged accusative and dative forms creating the "Akkudativ") Yiddish: 3 to 4 cases, 3 grammatical genders Dutch, Frisian, Norwegian: reliant largely on 1 case, 2 or 3 grammatical genders (the number of genders is debatable in these languages for various reasons. Dutch can be seen as having two genders (i.e. neuter vs. non-neuter) rather than three (i.e. masculine, feminine, neuter) while the number of grammatical genders in Frisian and Norwegian depends on the dialect/variant under consideration). Danish, Swedish: reliant largely on 1 case, 2 grammatical genders (N.B. Some Danish dialects distinguish 3 grammatical genders while others have no grammatical gender) Afrikaans, English: reliant largely on 1 case, no grammatical gender ------- Edited by Chung on 24 April 2010 at 10:05pm 15 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| egill Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5696 days ago 418 posts - 791 votes Speaks: Mandarin, English* Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 2 of 9 24 April 2010 at 11:14am | IP Logged | ||
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This is really amazing, thanks for taking the time to write this out!
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| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7156 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 3 of 9 24 April 2010 at 9:20pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thank you and no problem. Some of this stuff comes from my notes from a course about the history of German.
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| egill Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5696 days ago 418 posts - 791 votes Speaks: Mandarin, English* Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 4 of 9 05 May 2010 at 6:44am | IP Logged | ||
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Excuse the necromancy here, but in part spurred on by this thread I found an
interesting book that gives a general overview of seven Germanic languages in their older attested forms (Gothic, Old Norse, Old Saxon, Old English, Old Frisian, Old Low Franconian, and Old High German) that I think some of you may find useful. It's called: Old English and Its Closest Relatives (contrary to the name it gives equal consideration to each language) Each chapter contains two glossed samples of the language, prefaced by a historical section, and ending with an overview of the language's phonology, morphology, and some aspects of syntax. It also talks about how the languages fit in with the others and PGmc. It is very informative but still very accessible, being written with the layperson in mind. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Smart Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 5339 days ago 352 posts - 398 votes Speaks: Spanish, English*, Latin, French Studies: German | Message 5 of 9 05 May 2010 at 7:54am | IP Logged | ||
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Awesome thread.
@above post it's not necromancy if it has only been 10 days. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| egill Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5696 days ago 418 posts - 791 votes Speaks: Mandarin, English* Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 6 of 9 05 May 2010 at 8:57am | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks for the guideline—to be honest, I was just itching to use that word cause it's not
something I get to work into my quotidian conversations. (see, I did it again there) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Smart Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 5339 days ago 352 posts - 398 votes Speaks: Spanish, English*, Latin, French Studies: German | Message 7 of 9 05 May 2010 at 9:19am | IP Logged | ||
I understand that can be copasetic :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| shapd Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6149 days ago 126 posts - 208 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Italian, Spanish, Latin, Modern Hebrew, French, Russian | Message 8 of 9 05 May 2010 at 1:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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If you want to follow this up in more detail, the EU are working on a series of books designed to teach whole groups of languages together. They have completed EuroComRom in several languages and EuroComGerm (in German only last time I checked) and are working on Slav. See http://www.eurocomresearch.net/kurs/englisch.htm. They are available at a nominal cosst from the publisher this page links to. The philosophy of the teaching process is very interesting.
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