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Hardest part about Russian | ||
Tags: Difficulty | Russian | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| cristina12 Newbie India Joined 5678 days ago 1 posts - 1 votes | Message 17 of 29 09 May 2009 at 12:34pm | IP Logged | ||
Thanks for your mess. [urlhttp://www.espanole.es/Spanish courses in Valencia[/url] 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5838 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes  Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 18 of 29 10 May 2009 at 4:19pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks all for explaining about "gaspadin", "tavarisch", Name+Patronymic and the other forms of address...
Sounds like my suspicion that gaspadin was unusual was correct, but I had not realised that it also sounded pretentious. Actually, I think it sounds pretty cool & nice to say "tavarisch", but I don't plan to go to Russia and use the word too much! It would probably seem a bit strange like someone suggested... But it's easy to understand why communists decided to start using the word - it's got quite a feel-good factor to it. In English it really irritates me to addressed as "Madam", particularly by people with a snotty attitude. I was listening to a summary of the Victory Day celebrations in Moscow and I noticed that in the speeches there was no "ladies and gentlemen" but consistently "comrades" to everybody. But perhaps this was in the spirit/recognition of the history behind the celebrations 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cherepaha Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6589 days ago 126 posts - 175 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: Spanish, Polish, Latin, French | Message 19 of 29 08 April 2010 at 12:32pm | IP Logged | ||
I'm reviving some rather old thread here, but I just came across it, and want to address the question Cordelia had about what people do when they forget somebody's name. If you'd met this person before, and are seeing them again, but cannot remember their name, a typical expression would be "Прос'тите, не 'помню 'Вашего 'имени-'отчества" (pardon me, I'd forgotten your name-patronymic) or "Про'стите, не ‘помню 'Вашего 'отчества" (pardon me, I cannot remember your patronymic). In some cases you can get by with using just the person's first name and saying "Вы", i.e. the polite form. It is still safer to use the above apologetic phrase about not remembering their patronymic, and maybe they'll tell you that you can just call them by their first name, then you are home free to use the first name without the partonymic. If the person is older than you, unless openly invited by them to start using "ты", still continue to use the polite form along with the now permitted first name only. There is a jocular way of addressing someone if you'd forgotten their patronymic. In this case one replaces a specific name of the person's father with the word "father-vich/vna". Say, О'лег 'Батькович or 'Анна 'Батьковна. Needless to say, you should not use it on people you want to be polite to, but it may be useful to know what this means, if you come across the expression. Finally, the question about nicknames has already been discussed in some detail. I would just add that there is a set of standard nicknames that go with each full name. This way if someone introduces themselves as Tatiana, many people will immediately start addressing her as Tanya, as that is an assumed nickname that goes with that full name. If a person has a preference to be or not to be called a certain way, they may explicitly state so, yet the force of tradition is unstoppable, and strangers, who have just learned her name will still use a standard full name or nick name depending on their preference, so one frequently just succumbs to it, and stops correcting people, unless they encounter them every day and want to insist on being addressed in a particular manner. Say, Елиза'вета (Jeleeza'veta) has two standard nicknames: 'Лиза ('Leeza) and 'Вета ('Veta) -- you can probably see how both of those are packed inside of the full name. A friend of ours who goes by "'Лика" ('Leeka) introduces herself as such. She then usually gets asked "what full name is that?", and as soon as she says that it's Елизавета, half of the people in the room switch to calling her Лиза. I'm sure you can find a list of Russian full names and associated nicknames, if you wanted to become familiar with the most frequent ones. Once you'd looked through a series of them, you'll start getting a hand of the pattern of forming nicknames, and it'll be easier to predict what full names they could have been derived from. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Siberiano Tetraglot Senior Member Russian Federation one-giant-leap.Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6493 days ago 465 posts - 696 votes Speaks: Russian*, English, ItalianC1, Spanish Studies: Portuguese, Serbian | Message 20 of 29 08 April 2010 at 3:00pm | IP Logged | ||
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And don't address to anyone by their last name only. That's rude, since it's the way a mean school teacher addresses to you, as well as all the other kinds of mean people in power.
"Gospodin + last name" is ok, but formal. When speaking in 3rd person, it's ok to name one by last name if that person is stranger or not a close companion. For friends or coworkers using first name is preferred, because last name sounds formal and is used only by necessity for cognates. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| datsunking1 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5585 days ago 1014 posts - 1533 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German, Russian, Dutch, French | Message 21 of 29 08 April 2010 at 5:28pm | IP Logged | ||
I'm not sure if it's similar in Ukrainian, but I address my friend's parents with honorary titles like the word for Mr./Mrs. + first name. He said that's how they do it in the Ukraine :D So I just went along with it :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| goosefrabbas Triglot Pro Member United States Joined 6368 days ago 393 posts - 475 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: German, Italian Personal Language Map | Message 22 of 29 08 April 2010 at 6:55pm | IP Logged | ||
This is generally the same in most languages. :) 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5334 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 23 of 29 21 April 2010 at 5:40pm | IP Logged | ||
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I am now more confused than ever. When I was recently in Ukraine, and I needed to stop an elderly lady to ask for directions I would say (and forgive the way I spell it with Latin letters - probably different to what your are used to)
Pajalusta, gazpasjá - gdje .... Do you seriously mean I should have used tavaritsj in stead? I thought the use of that was discontinued 20 years ago? I am probably stepping on 30% of the toes here now, but there are some expressions in different languages that my gut simply cannot take: - I can't use "Tavaritsj" - gives me associations to Stalin - I can't use "Genossen" which gives me associations to WW2 - I cannot use "Yes Sir/Mam" as it makes me feel like a servant that should bow to my superiors - and I cannot bring myself to say "Oui, Madame", or "Non, Monsieur" for the same reason. I have no problems using these titles in normal converation (Bonjour Mme. Legras!), but adding them to other statements makes me physically ill. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| stelingo Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5832 days ago 722 posts - 1076 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Czech, Polish, Greek, Mandarin | Message 24 of 29 22 April 2010 at 12:30am | IP Logged | ||
I think the most natural way of addressing someone in this type of situation is to say: Скажите, пожалуйста, где...? No need to use any form of address. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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