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Italian -- Tonic Accent | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| dglass48 Triglot Newbie United States Joined 5796 days ago 16 posts - 16 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: German, Italian, French | Message 1 of 10 25 April 2010 at 1:44pm | IP Logged | ||
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... of present indicative (& subj) for -ARE verbs. Is there a listing somewhere of all (or most) verbs such as abitare, augurare, desiderare etc. which have antepenult tonic stress for the 3 persons singular? I find it strange that verb compendia (such as 501 Italian verbs) never seem to have this information, nor do any of the dictionaries I've consulted. In an old grammar (N Perini) there is a partial listing of some unusual ones, and the author says there are about 70 more in this category, but does not list them. Where can I find such a list? Edited by dglass48 on 25 April 2010 at 1:46pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| etracher Triglot Groupie Italy Joined 5334 days ago 92 posts - 180 votes  Speaks: English*, Italian, Spanish Studies: Modern Hebrew, Russian, Latvian | Message 2 of 10 25 April 2010 at 3:18pm | IP Logged | ||
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Since you speak Spanish, I would try to find a list in a grammar book of Italian for Spanish speakers, because many of these verbs are similar in form in both languages but with different stress, which would thus likely make them troublesome for Spanish speakers.
A quick check turned up a list in a Portuguese grammar of Italian on Google books. The title is "Sistema Verbal Da Lingua Italiana" by Maurizio Babini, pp. 123-132. Since I am new here and not that expert at navigating around these places, I am not sure if I may post links (nor even sure exactly how to do so), but here is the address anyhow: http://books.google.com/books?id=8ebpaJESG3wC&pg=PA8&lpg=PA8 &dq=verbi+sdruccioli+prima+coniugazione&source=bl&ots=c-KhR2 IxpB&sig=gt3UM81rCorbJ99vQdKEa9FnZWE&hl=en&ei=wD3US8fNC4Oanw OQhajMDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CEQQ6A EwCQ#v=onepage&q=verbi%20sdruccioli%20prima%20coniugazione&f =false 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| dglass48 Triglot Newbie United States Joined 5796 days ago 16 posts - 16 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: German, Italian, French | Message 3 of 10 25 April 2010 at 5:11pm | IP Logged | ||
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etracher -- Thanks for the helpful response. Unfortunately, the link you sent is only a "preview" and excludes the needed pages. Were you able to produce pp 123-132? The search terms you gave are helpful, so I continued on in Google books but could not come up with tne necessary information in public domain books. Any further suggestions? Thanks again
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| etracher Triglot Groupie Italy Joined 5334 days ago 92 posts - 180 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, Spanish Studies: Modern Hebrew, Russian, Latvian | Message 4 of 10 25 April 2010 at 7:37pm | IP Logged | ||
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dglass48,
Sorry about the link, I must not have looked carefully at the pages, because now that I look again it appears that there are several pages missing right there in the middle. I've just checked all of my Italian grammars and none of them make any special mention of this class of verbs. You might try a series of searches online for "verbi sdruccioli", "prima coniugazione accento sdrucciolo" and whatnot. Perhaps that way you might find a list online somewhere. Since your profile says you are in the US, do you by any chance live in an area with a large Hispanic population? If so, you might try your local library and see if there is an Italian grammar for Spanish speakers there. If not, you might try an inter-library loan or simply order one online. If your Spanish is at a good level you could use the book in your studies and I am sure that such a book would point out particular differences between Spanish and Italian. One more note: my monolingual Devoto-Oli Italian dictionary indicates the first-person singular of all verbs (and the second-person if necessary), including accent marks indicating correct word stress. It does not include a list such as the one you are looking for but at least when you look up a new verb you will know if it belongs to this class or not. Plus, it is overall an excellent dictionary. In case you are interested and aren't familiar with it: "Il dizionario della lingua Italiana", by Giacomo Devoto and Gian Carlo Oli, published by Le Monnier, Firenze. Edited by etracher on 25 April 2010 at 7:40pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| dglass48 Triglot Newbie United States Joined 5796 days ago 16 posts - 16 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: German, Italian, French | Message 5 of 10 25 April 2010 at 9:54pm | IP Logged | ||
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etracher -- Thanks for the helpful information. Yes, a dictionary that provided this information would be as good, or better, than a list. Is this a feature of all standard monolingual Italian dictionaries, or only the massive Devoto-Oli? It's time I invested in one anyway, but the Devoto-Oli may be more than I need -- I see the price is a bit steep for our devalued dollars. Edited by dglass48 on 25 April 2010 at 9:54pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| etracher Triglot Groupie Italy Joined 5334 days ago 92 posts - 180 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, Spanish Studies: Modern Hebrew, Russian, Latvian | Message 6 of 10 26 April 2010 at 10:42pm | IP Logged | ||
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To tell the truth, I had never thought about this question before. However, today I had a chance to check a few other dictionaries and, yes, it appears that this is a feature of standard Italian monolingual dictionaries. The smaller, pocket dictionaries do not include this information but the larger ones all have the basic forms of the verbs.
If you feel it is too early for the Devoto-Oli, you could always order what the Italians call "Il devotino", which is a smaller, more portable version. The cost is about 30 Euros. I checked it today at the bookstore and it definitely gives the conjugation of the verbs, with the correct accent. Treccani is excellent but expensive; I don't know if they have a smaller version or not. Also Zanichelli is very good. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Emme Triglot Senior Member Italy Joined 5347 days ago 980 posts - 1594 votes Speaks: Italian*, English, German Studies: Russian, Swedish, French | Message 7 of 10 26 April 2010 at 11:28pm | IP Logged | ||
Hi dglass48! I hope this may help: I’ve searched the internet (mainly the Italian sites) to find an answer to your question and I’ve come across a couple of lists of verbs that are ‘sdruccioli’ (the accent is on the 3rd last sillable) like ‘abitare’. I've collated the lists and come up with this one: abitare, accomodare, animare, augurare calcolare, capitare, chiacchierare, circolare, collocare, considerare dedicare, desiderare, dimenticare, dubitare esagerare, esaminare, evitare fabbricare giudicare illuminare, immaginare, indicare, interrogare liberare meritare, modificare, moltiplicare obbligare, occupare, ordinare partecipare, praticare, precipitare, preoccupare, provocare, pubblicare scivolare, separare, significare, superare, supplicare ultimare valutare, visitare The links to the original websites are http://www.eoimalaga.com/italiano/manual3.htm the list is about half way down the page; http://www.italiansrus.com/spanish/leccione23.htm Lezione ventitreesima I’m not sure this is a complete list of ‘verbi sdruccioli’ but I guess it has all the common ones. Edited by Emme on 27 April 2010 at 12:00am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| dglass48 Triglot Newbie United States Joined 5796 days ago 16 posts - 16 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: German, Italian, French | Message 8 of 10 26 April 2010 at 11:53pm | IP Logged | ||
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etracher -- thanks for the info on various dictionaries. I will check them all out. In the meantime, I found on Google books the 1902 Bulle e Rigutini Italiano-Tedesco Dizionario. Strange that the current bilingual dictionaries for use by foreigners does not have this needed information.
Emme -- Thanks for the contribution -- these do seem to be the more usual ones, but there are several I hadn't thought of. I wonder what the 70 other ones were that Perini referred to -- possibly compounds or derivatives of the better known ones. I have the information I was seeking. Thanks again to both of you. Dan Glass 1 person has voted this message useful |
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