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Response to past Pimsleur discussions | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| Charles Heinle Language Program Publisher Newbie United States pimsleurdirect.com Joined 6344 days ago 12 posts - 13 votes Speaks: English* | Message 1 of 148 12 July 2007 at 1:13pm | IP Logged | |||||
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The Pimsleur Method is an integrated system which provides systematic learning activities for the learner to perform in a specific series of steps, which have been developed and tested with individual learners over the past 45 years, until they have produced the specific results anticipated in the learners, over time. The end results justify the means or they would have evolved until they actually do produce the desired results in the learner.
The problem of picking on part of the learning activities — on a piecemeal basis, means that control of necessary steps is interrupted, and learning becomes haphazard and unpredictable, leaving the learner confused and uncertain how to proceed in the most efficient way possible — causing inefficient, unorganized learning. Because of the years of successful Pimsleur learning patterns, the more efficient one remain intact and produce the accomplishment of spoken-language proficiencies, which are measurable. The discussions of the different learning steps in various other teaching Programs, trying to compare the various Language Programs, is pointless-- each Program needs to be compared on it’s own as an integrated Program, since that’s the way Programs work... And individual learners should not be forced to try to invent their own composite of when to do and how to combine certain parts —Programs develop as a result of years of development. Each program has it’s own logic and the learner deserves to get the full benefit of the development process. Pimsleur Programs carry a full money-back performance guarantee on the results. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Sprachprofi Nonaglot Senior Member Germany learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6469 days ago 2608 posts - 4866 votes  Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese | Message 2 of 148 12 July 2007 at 1:56pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I don't doubt that Pimsleur invested a lot of time perfecting the method, but that doesn't mean that the programs can do something they weren't meant to do (teach students how to read & write the language or a better-than-basic vocabulary). Pimsleur does a good job at teaching pronunciation and basic conversation, but those who aren't happy with just that will have to create a composition of different programs and supplements.
If a program can actually bring a student to intermediate or advanced level in all areas of usage, I'm all for the idea of letting a single method do its work and not interfere with it. In fact, many people dream of such a method, but there doesn't seem to be any, or at least none that works for everybody. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Asiafever Diglot Newbie Germany Joined 6452 days ago 38 posts - 35 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: German, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 3 of 148 12 July 2007 at 2:09pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Every Pimsleur lessons teach exactly the same vocabulary, except for a few words, using the same sentence with a few differences such as street names, person names and regional/cultural habits. I don't think it was tested in every languages and by some strange coincidence the same sentences had the best results. I think the method was only tested for a few languages and then the compagny started making more of it in many languages to make more money.
Some of them are horrible, the Thai and Vietnamese ones don't even say anything about the tones! What the lesson does well is ti give you some kind of fluency in a business our touristic environnement and it also gives you a good accent but nothing more, it doesn't makes you fluent and it doesn't teach you to read. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7155 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 4 of 148 12 July 2007 at 2:12pm | IP Logged | |||||
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The first post comes off more like a plug and justification/defense for Pimsleur's high prices on its comprehensive programs and teaching method.
I agree with Sprachprofi. Until someone creates a program that addresses all of the areas (not just parroting basic or survival phrases) that a language learner wants to learn, there's no other option but to use different programs/kits/resources. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Seth Diglot Changed to RedKing’sDream Senior Member United States Joined 7223 days ago 240 posts - 252 votes Speaks: English*, Russian Studies: Persian | Message 5 of 148 12 July 2007 at 2:41pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Pimsleur, in my opinion, is still the best at teaching the student the basic core of a language, at least insofar as production is concerned. It is not about "parroting phrases" (as long as one goes beyond level I). After using Pimsleur, it is so much easier to acquire other structures and vocabulary.
If Pimsleur is at fault, it is only in their advertising that the student will be much closer to fluency than they really will be, or that the student will be taught enough vocabulary. As I said before, Pimsleur I-III is just the very beginning of the journey. But (to repeat) what makes Pimsleur great--and this seems to be servely underappreceated--is that it greatly facilitate the acquisition of syntax and morphology, such that the student is able to respond with greater automaticity. This is the beauty of Anticipation Response, which is missing in most other courses. Once again, after going through some of the literature in psycholnguistics, I have found many similar principles validated. To criticize that it doesn't bring one to fluency is to miss the point. I doubt any single program can do that. Of course you will need more material after Pimsleur--much more! Pimsleur doesn't do too much to develop reading and writing skills, and might not even be the best for listening, but that doesn't diminish its quality at all. I do agree that the price is a bit ridiculous. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| daristani Senior Member United States Joined 7143 days ago 752 posts - 1661 votes Studies: Uzbek | Message 6 of 148 12 July 2007 at 2:52pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Thank you, Mr. Heinle, for your first-ever post on this forum as an "applied linguist" commenting on the products that you just happen to have for sale on the website you listed in your profile. The objectivity of your comments thus comes into some question. (The grammatical errors in your posting may well cause some to question your linguistics background as well.)
Whether you've spent much time reading this forum or not I can't tell, but if you do you will see that there are quite a number of members who have learned more than one language to rather high levels of proficiency. They have a good deal of experience with different materials and methods, including Pimsleur. Some seem to have found the Pimsleur materials to be of some use, particularly for absolute beginners, although many clearly have little use for Pimsleur products. Regardless of their views on the Pimsleur products, though, the members of the forum contribute their own personal opinions, based on their experiences as language learners, and without thought for commercial gain. It's not a venue for marketing efforts. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| manny Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6357 days ago 248 posts - 240 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Tagalog Studies: French, German | Message 7 of 148 12 July 2007 at 7:52pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Mr Heinle: let us not waste time. Please tell us what your stake in the company is. Are you a manager or stockholder?
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6438 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 8 of 148 12 July 2007 at 8:28pm | IP Logged | |||||
This very site can tell you. http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/reviews/publisher.asp?p ublisher=1. Mr. Heinle's website says that he is:
I frankly don't see what the big problem is. He's open about his affiliation, has only posted once, and makes some valid points. His posting is somewhat too commercial (money back offers really don't seem highly relevant in this forum), but there's some content as well. I'd say he's marketing, and has a commercial stake in it, but I'd also say that he hasn't -quite- gone over the line[*]. If he makes more posts which equally or more commercial, by all means, it's not appropriate, but as this is his first one, I think there's some sense in being slightly lenient and explaining that he's very close to the line. Do we want to keep all language program developers/managers from this forum? [*] Where you draw the line may, of course, vary; where I drew it is a matter of my opinion. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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